My advice for those who really want to play GJ

The first thirty years are the worst

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emackenz
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Post by emackenz »

thanks Amir - good luck mate - if i had a son into this music i'd be a happy man :)
DennisC
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Post by DennisC »

training the ears is very important but a lot of the non-gypsy guitar players learning this music are hobbyists with fulltime jobs and a family...

the priority should be always to have fun....

using tab (transcribed by someone knowledgeable ie michael horowitz) can be helpful in the beginning to get an idea of how th left hand fingering system works, eventually you'll naturally get the feel for it, and from that point, it's best to do everything by ear as amir suggested...
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campfire
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Post by campfire »

You have to learn the vocabulary before you can speak. Music is a language. Gypsy jazz is a dialect. When we learn to speak a language, we start simply, and gradually attach new words to create longer phrases. It's the same when learning to improvise (in a particular style). You add other short melodic bits to the vocabulary you already know, thus creating longer lines and musical phrases. Improvising is theme and variation, not 100% divine inspiration. You have to go through many phases of the learning process before you get to that "zen" place. If just listening was all it took, I'd be a jazz genius by now! Listening is indispensable, but so is learning WTF you are doing. Many gypsys are taught technique, harmony, melody, and rhythm by rote. Note by note. I personally didn't have an "Uncle Reinhardt" in my family to teach me all this stuff. There's a lot of good information to be gotten from studying the books and other recources out there, including tab, standard musical notation, and text. There's more than one way to get downtown, and not everybody has a Ferrari! As long as you get there, that's the important thing. JMO.

Larry
www.larrycamp.com (my personal jazz guitar website)
www.impromptujazz.com (my gypsy jazz website)
"Archtops are nice, but a Selmer....ahhhh!"
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Amir
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Post by Amir »

campfire wrote:You have to learn the vocabulary before you can speak. Music is a language. Gypsy jazz is a dialect. When we learn to speak a language, we start simply, and gradually attach new words to create longer phrases. It's the same when learning to improvise (in a particular style). You add other short melodic bits to the vocabulary you already know, thus creating longer lines and musical phrases. Improvising is theme and variation, not 100% divine inspiration. You have to go through many phases of the learning process before you get to that "zen" place. If just listening was all it took, I'd be a jazz genius by now! Listening is indispensable, but so is learning WTF you are doing. Many gypsys are taught technique, harmony, melody, and rhythm by rote. Note by note. I personally didn't have an "Uncle Reinhardt" in my family to teach me all this stuff. There's a lot of good information to be gotten from studying the books and other recources out there, including tab, standard musical notation, and text. There's more than one way to get downtown, and not everybody has a Ferrari! As long as you get there, that's the important thing. JMO.

Larry

As you said - Music is a language.
And it's well known that the best way to learn to speak in any language - is to live the language.
Learning the vocabulary could be very helpfull, but if you don't live the language - it's just won't do.
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campfire
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Post by campfire »

Amir,

Nobody here has suggested NOT to listen to the music. It IS the most important way to learn. But after we learn to speak, we usually learn to read and write so that we can communicate our ideas more clearly and to a larger number of people. Music is (above all) a way of communicating with others. The more ways you can learn or communicate a language (music) the better. Learning music notation or tab or reading about someone else's approach to learning music can only help you on your journey. If you prefer not to use this approach, that's cool. I've been playing the guitar for 40 years, and to some extent, I feel I have "lived the language", to quote you. But I still study, transcribe, sight read, and use books as well as listen to improve my playing and conception.

Good luck on your musical journey!

Larry
www.larrycamp.com (my personal jazz guitar website)
www.impromptujazz.com (my gypsy jazz website)
"Archtops are nice, but a Selmer....ahhhh!"
Velvet Goldmine
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Post by Velvet Goldmine »

Amir wrote:
fandjango wrote:I think using tab/tab software is a good idea. Relying on hearing alone is a much longer and arguably less accurate process. GJ solos are often complex and played quickly, so learning the CORRECT scales, progressions, etc. without spending large amounts of time re-listening to the same section of a song to get it right, is assisted by good tablature.

Practicing from tab does provide ideas for improvisation (listening obviously helps as well, but to say that tab does not is not true). The more you practice using tab, the more familiar you become with the style, how notes relate to one another, and ultimately how to build on this knowledge for your own solos. It's working for me...
There are several problems on Tabs.
One of the biggest problems is that most tabs written by amateurs, in a matter of fact - i've found mistakes on every tablature on this site,
the only good tabs are the tabs that the artist himself write, or by someone experience (like Horowitz).

Beside, people who learn to play only from tablature - are oftenly repeat the same patterns over and over again.

The biggest advantage of hearing development is that you can't get wrong, that's a must-be thing when your in a middle of a solo, and the gypsy flavor in your improvisations is just a matter of how much GJ do you hear.

Just think about it, no one of the really big GJ players has learned to play from tablature.
They all use their hearing.
Well GJ is alot about reapting the same patterns and licks, i mean it's hard to inovate a music style that's been around for a few decades.
minordjango
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Post by minordjango »

Tabs and arpeggiosand scales etc are cool, but only the tools of the trade so dont worry too much (Obviously practice them when you see fit),
But I find Just creating a few solos of your own using those tools works well the exact way Nolan does it in his books,

You can write it out (If you have a memory like me) or just memorize it , it can be a combination of licks or just your own ideas, But be sure to jam it in all situations, and when you get stuck just improvsing pull it out and have fun .
Works well !!!
Cheers happy playing MinoDJanGOOOOOOO
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