Django deserves more

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djangla
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Django deserves more

Post by djangla »

Why is it that most people do not adhere or even have not heard of the music of Django? Should he/his music not be more known throughout the world today? I, myself, do not understand why the fans of gipsyjazz are more or less limited to the visitors of this forum. Is it not a fact that Django has, in some way, influenced the morepart of modern jazzguitarists, and, given this fact, should he not be, praised throughout the world, and not only by the small number of people that today are called "gadjos", or, of course, gipsies?
Is there not a chance of being famous outside this so called "gipsy community" when even not the most established of the gipsies are not celabrated internationally, as they should be?
I once played a tape of this music for a friend and that friend gave that tape to another friend, and so the legacy continues.
The point is, why is this music of such a small proportion as it is, when it has been proven to me, and surely to many of you others, that it has such an addictive quality that should be easily carried forward through the world without hindrance?
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Djosh
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Post by Djosh »

If you talk to musicians they for the most part know who Django was. Most people's knowledge of music is limited to what they here on the radio. This is sad but for the most part true. If you talk to some one how loves jazz and knows there stuff chances are they know exactly who Django is/was. I won't take too many years for the joe one the street to forget who Miles Davis was. Just give it time. Most everyday, Target shopping, Radio listening people will never know what they have been missing.
Last edited by Djosh on Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DKP
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Post by DKP »

I think a lot of guitar players don't believe their ears. I have played tapes, records & CD's of Django for guitar players who would tell me that it was all nonsense; he was just a speed freak & nobody could understand what he was playing anyway. Such responses have always left me speechless. All I can figure is that as players, they are not mature enough to appreciate his talent, & too jealous to admit his talent. I recently sent a tape of Django to a player who, although 63 years old, is just getting started. He called me in the middle of the night to say it was the most incredible thing he had ever heard & has since ordered 9 CD's of Django & is still, like me, thoroughly amazed everytime he hears the recordings. There are a few besides this group.
Saul
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Post by Saul »

DKP wrote:I have played tapes, records & CD's of Django for guitar players who would tell me that it was all nonsense; he was just a speed freak & nobody could understand what he was playing anyway. Such responses have always left me speechless.
This is quite an incredible reaction for a guitarist to have and ironic, given how melodic Django's improvising is (don't suppose you could expect people to have strong views on "Django the harmonist" on one listen). However, I do think people have a hard time relating this music to things that they're more familiar with, which is understandable, because it was original, but, unfortunately, not as directly influential as other styles. That said, the rewards of studying it closely for people like us are all the greater.
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quecumbar
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THE PRESS THE RADIO

Post by quecumbar »

I know the only reason we are not full of people listening to this type of music in uk is because we don't get enough press/radio coverage for it -
we have some of the best in the world play here and still sometimes we cannot sell all 65 tickets!! and have had to cancel concerts in 18 months I have not got one major London publication to do a review on the Django stuff we do here every week.
Thanks to Miles Kingston of the Idependent a couple of weeks ago writing about a trip to Paris he had listening to this stuff and just linking our name to the article we had a huge surge of interest so that proves it for me
Its up to the fans of this stuff to demand the radio and press give it more coverage people power and not just commercial stuff.
The two majot gypsy jazz festivals in the uk and my venue and a few others including this forum are all thats keeping it alive here but we all need more public exposure the public love it and just need to know its still here and full on with new guys coming up all the time which is the only way to keep it alive and we need to support the new and old musicians of this style as mch as possible TELL THE PRESS TELL THE RADIO TELL THE MEDIA........OTHERWISE WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO CARRY THIS ALONE
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FSUGypsyJazz
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Post by FSUGypsyJazz »

I have to agree, being a dj at the colege radio station here at FSU I always find a way to work in some Gypsy stuff. Usually some Bireli or Rosenberg trio (and not to forget John Jorgenson who sent a copy of his new cd for the station). and every time I play some stuff. I immediatley get a good number of calls of people just asking what it was I was just playing. I hardly feel I have made in really converts but at least drumming up mild interest
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woodshedder
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Post by woodshedder »

Everyone seems really hungry for it to me...hungry for something real. Theres so much plastic music clogging up the stream its hard for people to see much else. I think we're cresting upon a wave though...which may just wash the old plastic away.

The current standards are super low, the expectation is super low, most popular "artists" suck....

quality will prevail, hopefully.

Gadjology? Maybe.
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Swing This!
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Post by Swing This! »

What would help, if it hasn't been done, is for major jazz guitarists playing the scene today, to help promote the current gypsy-jazz guitarist by sharing the billing with them, say if John Scofield for example invited Angelo Debarre to open for him, then those who would love this music, but have not had the exposure to it...would be a great way to exposure this music to the natural audience that is out there.

After all, that's how I discovered John Scofield when he was a sideman in Miles Davis's group.

Or if more of the gypsy-jazz artists were put on the billing at the 'regular' international jazz festivals around the world - every time I see festivals listed it's always the usualy suspects, throw in a few Angelo's / Fapy's and the like, and gypsy jazz could really take off.
pete g
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Post by pete g »

I have been playing jazz for getting on for 30 years. I've played in big bands, quartets, quintets, duos and just about any combination you can think of. When I talk about this style to pianists, saxophonists etc they all know what I am referring to, but rarely express enthusiasm.

Lack of interest appears to stem from two criticisms:

1 La pompe. It sounds old fashioned. On slow numbers especially it can sound laboured and boring. (Django, on returning from USA was dissatisfied with the European rhythm sections, one of the reasons he 'retired' to Samois).

2 Macho soloing, especially the new breed of European player. A female friend of mine, watching Andreas Oberg and Yourgi Lefloeur at Gossington, said 'these guys are not playing music, they're just having a race'

Personally, I love the syle, but I can see why it has little appeal beyond guitar players.
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Teddy Dupont
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Post by Teddy Dupont »

pete g wrote:Lack of interest appears to stem from two criticisms:

1 La pompe. It sounds old fashioned. On slow numbers especially it can sound laboured and boring.

2 Macho soloing, especially the new breed of European player. A female friend of mine, watching Andreas Oberg and Yourgi Lefloeur at Gossington, said 'these guys are not playing music, they're just having a race'
Much as I love this music, both points are totally valid. Increasing emphasis on these two specific elements is stifling the music. Neither are at the real heart of the playing of Django Reinhardt.
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Swing This!
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Post by Swing This! »

Yes, here, here Teddy...I couldn't agree more. Whilst it's definitely a lot of fun to see guitarists exhibit their speed skills and dexterity after a few songs it becomes mind-numbing with it's repetitiveness and lack of melody. I felt this way at the recent DFNW show of Trio Gonzalo when Gonzalo played lightning fast licks on each song...for me it was overkill. Also when you've listened to a few CDs of these guys, you realize that they're playing and repeating many of the same arpeggios at break-neck speed and they all start to resemble each other. I had this experience, unfortunately, on listening to the new Paulus Schaeffer CD on many of the tracks.

cheers-

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devinci
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Post by devinci »

Thats why I really love the playing of Rodolphe Raffalli, true lyrical playing.
agross1217
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Post by agross1217 »

i recently saw john jorgensen for the first time, and would have to add him to that group as well. there were moments i felt he was truly channeling the master up there. very beautiful stuff.
overtone
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Post by overtone »

i've been playing and listening to jazz and other styles for about 12 years. i also have been in big bands, combos and the like. but recognizing gypsy jazz as a sub-genre is a new development to me. i knew who django was, i had heard some hot club recordings and i really just thought of the music as jazz of the 30's and 40's. if i had a compilation of music of the era, django would be on the same CD as benny goodman, lionel hampton, charlie chritian, or gene krupa, etc...not until just recently have i 'discovered' the dedication of the people that carry on the legacy of such a great musician. its not the music, its the people. i can see how people want this music to be popular, but it seems to be the type of music that you can only appreciate in smaller circles where people are willing to share the level of intamacy that this music requires to be really understood. otherwise its just old time jazz to most people.
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Cuimean
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Post by Cuimean »

Ted G. and nwilkins have brought up J-P Watremez in the past. I just found his website and checked out some of his stuff. He seems to be building off the tradition in a modern way. I'd like to hear more of his stuff.

Check it out: http://membres.lycos.fr/watremez/
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