Django deserves more

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weltiviolin
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Post by weltiviolin »

I think the reason why Django's musics not so popular is exposure, pure n simple. People just don't know this guys music, jazz musicians included which is a real tragedy. Many have HEARD of him and always make the stupid point of "that guy who played with missing fingers" as if that's his major claim to fame. Fact is few people know about the genius of this guy's music -it is truly incredible stuff, one of those rare forms of music that can sound Classical, Jazzy and rootsy all at the same time. Friend of mine once described it as the most musical music and I tend to agree. Many guys opt to play gypsy-swing loud and fast but once you pair it all down Django's music is golden. His melodies are exceptional, improvisations totally unique - his solo improvisations sound like the most sophisticated of Classical compositions almost like Barrios sometimes. It's also weirdly enough peaceful music - the oomp pah sounds like a heart-beat, when you get a few guys playing that together it can be just the most beautiful sound. You can play virtually any style of music alongside the Django style, it blends perfectly with most music around. (obviously not just the oomp pah, all the other Django rhythms, licks, etc) Personally reckon if someone gave it the right exposure it'd be a heck of a lot more popular...
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Django'sPoolTalent
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Post by Django'sPoolTalent »

In some ways I wish more people knew about Django's talent, but it also is interesting that only few of us know and idol django because it's almost a secret club or organization, something special
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justjack
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Post by justjack »

Django'sPoolTalent wrote:In some ways I wish more people knew about Django's talent, but it also is interesting that only few of us know and idol django because it's almost a secret club or organization, something special
True...we should be working on the secret two-finger handshake.
Django'sPoolTalent
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Post by Django'sPoolTalent »

ssh, jack, don't let them find out
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lukejazz
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Post by lukejazz »

weltiviolin wrote:I think the reason why Django's musics not so popular is exposure, pure n simple. People just don't know this guys music, jazz musicians included which is a real tragedy.


While I share you're sentiments about the music, I have to say I totally disagree with your point here. Someone else said it earlier in this thread - most people hear it as old fashioned and boring. It's just not going to have the same affect on others as is does with you. It's not really "popular music for our times" if you know what I mean. It's not really speaking to listeners on a level they can comprehend in a way they're used to and in a way society has trained them (us). Just MHO.
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fandjango
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Post by fandjango »

Just my two cents...If you want Django's music to get the attention it deserves, your gonna have to take it to the street. Without gigging or (if you can't get a gig), busking, jamming in the streets, parks, etc. (using backing tracks if you have to), people aren't going to pick up on this great music. Although I've only recently started learning Django, by next summer I fully intend to get out there and play this stuff...If you don't bring it to the people (for free initially - perhaps, indefinitely), you can forget about increased radio play and press for gypsy jazz. Hit the street and people will start listening...
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Post by TedGottsegen »

weltiviolin wrote:I think the reason why Django's musics not so popular is exposure, pure n simple. People just don't know this guys music, jazz musicians included which is a real tragedy.


Man, it seems like every other commercial on US television these days is Hot Club-esque. Moreover, my wife makes it a point to point out any time we hear a Hot Club-esque tune on a TV show. Last night we were watching something and sure enough, in the background is an augmented "Minor Swing" - it was close enough for the trained ear to hear that it was "Minor Swing" but two or three notes in the melody were changed to slide around copyright issues. In the US, the music is here, and it IS mainstream - it's just that people don't always know what it is. But when they do...they love it.
overtone
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Post by overtone »

i've noticed that too. there's a Denny's commercial and some car insurance commercials that are playin the shit all over the place. i don't think it upsets me to hear it and to not have it appreciated, but i wonder who's in the studios in LA recording this music for the commercials? I get calls all the time from LA studio cats who want to buy a Gitane direct, and half of 'em are like "oh yeah, Django's the man!" and the other half are like "yeah, i've heard of him, I just want one of thes for a commercial spot i'm playing."
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lukejazz
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Post by lukejazz »

Here is why I thing we hear it in advertising so much:
If the music were to be characterized in broad generalized terms, most (tv advertising audience) listeners would describe it with words like "bouncy" and "happy". The other thing is that because there are usually no drums or singing and has a swing feel, that it is "serious music" at the same time. The target audience gets a happy type feeling and a sophisticated feeling simultaneously. Perfect for selling "upscale" products (like cars) or just whatever!
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quecumbar
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PEOPLE LOVE THE MUSIC

Post by quecumbar »

THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM ....THESE FORUMS ARE FULL OF US WHO LOVE IT, HOW DOES THIS SPREAD THE WORD? SORRY LAZY COMES TO MIND ...IF YOU WANT TO HEAR THIS MAIN STREAM THEN EMAIL THE RADIO STATIONS - PEOPLE POWER - TAKE IT TO THE STREET - SHOUT ABOUT IT TELL MAGAZINES GET ONTO OTHER WEB SITES AND SPREAD THE GOSPEL
I KNOCK MYSELF OUT TRYING TO SPREAD THE WORD EVERYWHERE NOT JUST ON THESE SITES THIS SITE IS FULL OF TALKERS -
I HAVE THE MOST AMAZING MASTER CLASSES THAT I STRUGGLE TO FILL BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE TOO LAZY AND WOULD RATHER TALK THAN DO, I HAVE A HANDFULL OF HARD CORE GUYS WHO COME TO MOST OF THE CONCERTS AND MASTER CLASSES AND BOY DOES IT SHOW IN THEIR PLAYING!! THEY HAVE COME ON LEAPS AND BOUNDS - ONE HAS A ONE MONTH TOUR IN THE STATES NEXT YEAR AND ONE IS IN NEW YORK RIGHT NOW WITH STEPHANE WREMBLE!! IT DOES PAY OFF, MOUCHING AROUND WHINGING IS NOT THE NASWER GET TOGETHER WITH OTHERS STRETCH YOURSELVES SHARE EVERYTHING...AND THEN ENTERTAIN YOUR AUDIENCE BECAUSE ACTUALLY THEY DON'T CARE IF YOU FLUFF A NOTE THEY WANT TO GO AWAY SAYING THEY HAD AN AMAZING EVENING WITH AMAZING MUSIC!!
EVERY PRESTIGE PERFORMANCE I HAVE HAD HERE HAS BEEN DIFFERENT AND GREAT IN ITS OWN WAY - WHERE ELSE CAN YOU SEE ALL OF THE FOLLOWING????
ANGELO, ANDREAS, RITARY, MORENO, MATCHO, JOHN JORGENSON, HANK MARVIN, ROBIN NOLAN, REINIER VOET PIGALLE 44, JOHN ETHERIDGE,
LOLLO AND TCHA PLAY HERE THIS WEEKEND THESE GUYS ARE THE BEST TELL ME WHY EVERY SEAT IS NOT FULL WEEKS IN ADVANCE OF CONCERTS??????? GET OFF THIS FORUM AND BOOK A TICKET HERE, OR TELL SOMEONE ELSE TO - I CANNOT SUSTAIN SUCH VISITING TALENT WITHOUT TICKET SALES FOR THESE GUYS, THIS WILL END IF I DON'T GET MORE SUPPORT!! IF YOU WANT THIS STUFF - DO SOMETHING TO SUPPORT IT, WHAT IS ONCE A MONTH OUT OF OUR DULL LIVES - I DON'T EVEN PLAY, BUT IF I DID NOT HAVE THIS PLACE I WOULD BE BOOKING MY TICKETS EVERY MONTH IN ADVANCE
I KNOW GUYS WHO LOVE THIS STUFF AND HAVE NEVER EVEN BEEN HERE WHICH BEGS THE QUESTION WHY???? THERE ARE GUYS ON THIS FORUM WHO SAY THEY HAVE NO ONE TO PLAY WITH THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN TO A JAM - OUR REGULAR JAMMERS ARE ALWAYS THE SAME PEOPLE WHERE ARE ALL THE OTHERS WHO COMPLAIN THERE IS NO ONE TO PLAY WITH OR HEAR THIS STUFF - IF THESE MASTERS CAN BE BOTHERED TO COME HERE AND SPREAD THE WORD AND MAKE THE EFFORT FOR LITTLE MONEY, JUST THE LOVE OF THE MUSIC AND THE JOY OF SHARING IT, IT KIND OF EXPLAINS WHY THEY ARE ALL AT THE TOP OF THEIR PROFESSION THIS IS WHAT SETS THEM APART!! EFFORT
ALL OF THEM HAVE THEIR OWN UNIQUE STYLE THIS MUSIC IS NOT STUCK ON THE PAST IT COVERS ALL ERAS PERFECTLY WITH THE TRADITIONALISTS ONE END AND THE ROBIN NOLANS AND JJS WHO ARE MAKING IT COMMERCIALLY ACCEPTABLE TO A WIDER AUDIENCE.
WELL THATS MY BIT SAID I FEEL BETTER NOW - SORRY ALL YOU USA GUYS ARE NOT HERE AT LE Q
COMING SOON BIEL BALLESTER TRIO JAN
TIM KLIPHUIS FEB
KOEN DE CAUTER FEB
YORGUI MARCH
RITARY APRIL
MAY LOLLO AND TCHA
AND IF ONE MORE PERSON SAYS OH IF YOU HAD BIRELI HERE YOU WOULD BE FULL I WILL SCREAM IT DOES NOT ALL BEGIN AND END WITH BIRELLI THESE OTHER GUYS ARE GREAT IN THEIR OWN UNIQUE WAY LETS STOP THE ANAL STUFF AND RECOGNISE EVERYONE HAS THEIR TALENT!! LETS FACE IT THEY WORK FULL TIME AT THIS IF THEY WERE NOT GOOD THEY WOULD NOT BE WORKING
HOPE TO SEE AT LEAST SOME OF YOU AT LE Q THIS WEEKEND - IF NOT YOUR LOSS - LOVE TO MY REGS
Thanks to all our Patrons and regular musicians
Keep live music Live
weltiviolin
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Post by weltiviolin »

Wow, been a while since logged on - lotsa comments on this topic. (...bout finally get a computer, oh oh, gonna have put down few comments on this forum...) Total respect to everyone's viewpoints. Lukejazz, I'd have to admit wrote a fairly flowery opinion on lack of Djangos awareness, have to argue against the whole "old-fashioned and boring" bit. True, the original Django/Stephane recordings can sound bit kitch at times and some of the tunes are old and daggy, think it's really important to remember that this music has for the most part over quite a number of years become a music that is representative of Gypsy people in France, Germany, Holland, Belgium and is very much a living, breathing music, just as relevant as any of the other Gypsy music around Europe and the Middle East. Many of the guys who play this music, Gypsy and non-Gypsy alike have recorded a stack of stuff that really doesn't have the same "old" sound as the original Django and Stephane recordings. Some have tried to recreate that sound, many havn't. A lot of these recordings seem to exist in this weird kind of nether world "is it jazz, is it Gypsy" and are known either by die-hard fans or people in the know - few people in the mainstream public, with exception to perhaps people in France, really seem know what the hell this music is and one's thing for certain, it aint just "old swing music." (Even if they do hear it on the latest ad for car insurance, how lovely - msure Django would be totall utterly besotted that his claim to fame with millions is his music accompanying the latest car insurance ad...) Hearing the music in an advertisement does not mean people will spring out of their chairs and go "Alright! they're playin Django" (well, I would...)

Few years ago the Cuban "son" music experienced a huge revival in popularity worldwide due in large part to the movie Buena Vista Social Club which was extremely well-marketed and filled a niche. Likewise, the music of tango legend Astor Piazolla and tango music as a whole has had a huge resurgence in popularity over the last few years, due purely and simply to exposure. If you've ever listened to old Tango or Cuban music recordings you'd think that it's old-fashioned and boring too - most of those recordings have even worse sound quality than the Django/Stephane recordings and if you want a good example of shmaltz...My point is that I really think that Django's music hasn't or appears not to have been tested in the water fully in terms of exposure. There are a few bands that have experimented with combining the music with various styles (Paris Combo, Sanseverino, Squirrel Nut Zippers- sort of) that have achieved a great deal of success but they are a very small number compared with the endless number of guys playing in traditional lineups around the world who maybe are content to play in annonymity, which is cool too - it's first and foremost about the music. Personally like said in previous blab think is a great shame this music isn't really known, it has such a depth to it and really think it is every bit as groovy and worth "resurrecting" in the public conscience as Cuban and Tango music, as well as a host of other music. The interesting thing is how people over here at the arse-end of the planet react when they hear bands with the Django-influence (and there's a reasonable few bands, even if there's not enough competant guitar players to make a single proper hot-club lineup in this city...)..they really, really dig it...My gut feeling is that it hasnt been really tapped into...Best to everyone.
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Viola_Bastarda
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Post by Viola_Bastarda »

I think the insularity of the sub-culture means that only such a tight handfull of people will ever even hear about, not only the virtuosi of the 30's but also the Django-influenced gypsy swing jazz stuff around now. There are a few hybrid-mongrel bands here in Sydney listing 'gyspy' as an influence- and even if theyre not 'Django-esque' as such, theyre marrying their style with everything from mariachi to rock. And it works, it appeals to ppl. And i reckon when it tickles people in the right place, they'll go out and research the band's roots/influences. So maybe the key is tapping into popular culture? (though purists would hunt me down and axe me)

Having said that lack of exposure and appreciation is in part because people see the world of gypsy jazz as so far removed from their own. Music is a package, designed by and for its culture. The (Australian/American etc) 'Idol' is such an example- this franchise has encouraged the consumer's need to be able to relate to our celebrities and to have access to them- we vote for them, we feel like they're a part of our lives etc. This is so obvious in my Generation (X-Box.. or SMS?). Perhaps young people think they can't relate to the music of an old 1930's Belgian gypsy?! No matter how much i (we) think the spirit and life of the music is universal and timeless, alot of people can't be bothered searching for music that's not constantly shoved in your face through all mediums; said Idol gets constant coverage in press, tv, radio, the lot. People have short attention spans it seems, so maybe pop culture is the key.
Hah, 'Gypsy Idol', anyone?
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Ando
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Post by Ando »

I'm late to this thread, but this struck a chord:
Few years ago the Cuban "son" music experienced a huge revival in popularity worldwide due in large part to the movie Buena Vista Social Club which was extremely well-marketed and filled a niche.
OK, if any film producer is reading this, consider doing a Buena Vista thing on gypsy jazz guitarists in Europe. Gypsy jazz is every bit as virtuosic, interesting, and photogenic as Cuban son. Perhaps more.

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emackenz
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Post by emackenz »

I echo the sentiments re 'hybrid' gypsy music around Australia. I know there's a healthy scene in Melbourne and thanks to Ian and George and Dave et al (not to mention good old Piers :) ) you guys have something happening in Sydney. Here in Brisbane there are a few groups arounds that claim some Gypsy influence - not much pure Manouche - though a local guitar shop is regularly selling Gitanes.
There are at least 8 or so groups at this year's Woodford Festival that mention Gypsy in their blurb - Monsieur Camembert, us (Mystery Pacific), a group called Nuages, Doch Gypsy Orchestra...etc etc.
Because the music has a cross-genre application - World/Folk/Jazz - it has the potential to appeal to a wide audience the way some folk music does for example - without ever going near the mainstream.
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Viola_Bastarda
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Post by Viola_Bastarda »

Ah Woodford is so goddamn close! I'll def come check you (Mystery Pacific) out. Any other forum peruse-ers going to the festival be sure to see Sydney's own "Garage Cabaret Gypsy Punk" band Waiting For Guinness...
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