All people that want that swing in their impros, read this.

The first thirty years are the worst

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All people that want that swing in their impros, read this.

Postby Velvet Goldmine » Sun Jul 25, 2004 10:33 am

Take the best Django record you got, sit there and play along wiht it.
BUT, thsi is the most impornent thing, FORGET the chords, FORGET the head, FORGET EVRYTHING you know about the song. Now when you have freed your mind. Picture the whole guitar as a libiary of tunes, try to use the tones to create rythm and harmony. This will practise both your ear and fingers. Then always try to play as fast as Django, even though it sounds bad, do an overkill play, the first day it might sound bad, but then from out of nowhere you will grasp it. Rember, Django did not have tabluatures nor chordcharts, he could not read notes. This is how Django bacame the meanset swinger in the world, don´t you want to be the second meanest swinger in the world?
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Postby nwilkins » Sun Jul 25, 2004 12:27 pm

I can't shake the nagging doubt that this won't work for most people exactly the way it did for Django because of most people's LACK OF GOD-LIKE MUSICAL GENIUS :( Even Bireli started off by learning chords and copying Django's solos (eventually teaching himself to play them with two fingers I might add).
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Postby Velvet Goldmine » Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:16 pm

If you do it my way, you will succeed, it will work for evybody. The only reaseon Django becam a musical genius was that he did this several houers a day, 7 days a week, if YOU do this you WILL be as good as Django. That is no farytail. It´s the bitter truth, well pretty sweet actally :P
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Postby Velvet Goldmine » Sun Jul 25, 2004 2:19 pm

And not to forget, I did not say NEVER use chordcharts, etc. I said work without them to! Somwtime the best way to learn is to forget it :)
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Postby nwilkins » Sun Jul 25, 2004 6:08 pm

Velvet Goldmine wrote:The only reaseon Django becam a musical genius was that he did this several houers a day, 7 days a week, if YOU do this you WILL be as good as Django. That is no farytail. It´s the bitter truth, well pretty sweet actally :P


Okay, either:

1. you're joking
2. you're crazy
3. you have never heard Django
4. you're actually a musical genius of Django's calibre and you have wrongly assumed everyone else is too

BTW, how were you able to find out about Django's practice regimen? I had always thought he practised rather less often than that, sometimes not playing for weeks at a time. :P
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Postby Justin » Sun Jul 25, 2004 7:59 pm

nwilkins wrote:
Velvet Goldmine wrote:The only reaseon Django becam a musical genius was that he did this several houers a day, 7 days a week, if YOU do this you WILL be as good as Django. That is no farytail. It´s the bitter truth, well pretty sweet actally :P


Okay, either:

1. you're joking
2. you're crazy
3. you have never heard Django
4. you're actually a musical genius of Django's calibre and you have wrongly assumed everyone else is too

BTW, how were you able to find out about Django's practice regimen? I had always thought he practised rather less often than that, sometimes not playing for weeks at a time. :P


Nwilkins, you are correct. Django did so much playing from when he was very young that he didn't practice all the time like we gadjos do.

Plus Django was a musical genius who took no formal musical theory training.

The thing Django understood was the four basics (which you can do A LOT with)...

1) Major
2) Minor
3) Diminished
4) Augmented

I think Django's two-finger soloing technique actually helped increase the volume and bounce of the hot jazz sound.. I love two-finger high-volume, heavy bounce, rhythm and swing... good stuff, especially when every note rings out.

I still think that Django did the best and prettiest chromatic runs of all time.
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Postby devinci » Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:36 pm

Not Stockolo, Birelli, Jimmy or Angelo, Yourgi, Boulo, Dorado or Samson, Tchavolo or Romane have ever done one of those cromatic runs quite as beautifully as Django, but hey they all do it differently from each other thus workes the nature of individual feel. Django will always have the most beautifull feel.

As regards Velvet Goldmine's opinions on the do it yourself guide to being a musical genius, utter rubbish. There is no formulised method that achives brilliance such as Django's or Keith Jarret's, Coltrane's, Gilespie's, Segovia's or Art Tatum's Practice simply makes perfect an ability that you must be born with. Practice seven hours a day and you will get good, but it takes God given facility to become a musical genius.
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Postby Teddy Dupont » Sun Jul 25, 2004 10:57 pm

devinci wrote:Practice seven hours a day and you will get good, but it takes God given facility to become a musical genius.

Absolutely right!

After his accident, Django was bedridden for nearly 18 months and practiced religiously during that period to develop his two finger approach. However, in the late 40's when he became somewhat disenchanted with the public response to his playing, he would often not touch the guitar for months to the extent that the strings would become corroded. However, as soon as he pulled it down from the wall of his caravan, he could immediately play like an angel. Genius is something is something you are born with. You need to assiduously develop it but you cannot practice to became a genius.

I hope that makes sense. I've had a "couple" of glasses of wine this evening.
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Postby Velvet Goldmine » Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:30 am

Never said you could be as good as Django, not in a million years. But if you have this aproch to the music you skill will grow rapidly. It´s MY opinion that you can become a Django class musican wiht lots of practise this way, it´s amazing what happens to you in this mannor of practising. And I meant Djangos early palying days, whne he was young whne I was talking about the training, if he practised alot when he was old I do not know. I have head the same thing as mentioned above.
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Postby Velvet Goldmine » Mon Jul 26, 2004 1:56 am

Maybe you guys misunderstod me, you should use note etc. BUT practising this way will improve you´re ear, and it will do miracles with you´re finger play, since you´re just swinging wiht the music as fast as you can. Im not sying you will become Django, it´s just a wery good wasy to get a feel for the music, since you don´t have to care about form and such. It´s a good tip, especilly since the gypsy jazz is a wery delicate music to play, lots of thory, that can easily make you drop in the beggining.
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Postby nwilkins » Mon Jul 26, 2004 2:52 am

Velvet Goldmine wrote:Never said you could be as good as Django, not in a million years.


Yes you did! Look at what you wrote - your post above says (and I quote): "if YOU do this you WILL be as good as Django. That is no farytail. "

For the record I do agree that the method you suggest will improve your creativity and ear, but there are still other important factors (such as innate genius) which cannot be learned through practice if one is to approach Django's greatness.
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Postby Velvet Goldmine » Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:21 am

What I meant was to become Django class, not Django himself. Hehe, now I see what the fuzz was al about. I just wanted to let al the begginners know that this aproch (that can seem as something that would ot work) actually works wery well. All to often have I seen beginners drown theirselfs in note, chrdcharts etc. I just wanted to tell them that practesing without this frees your mind. And well that what´s jazz is all about, isn´t it?
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Postby Phydeaux3 » Mon Jul 26, 2004 4:46 pm

I think that players shouldn't be put off by trying the lines at tempo, because if you don't you wont learn to get that spontaneous fast run etc. that you feel you want to put into your solo.
I've been trying the Montagne triplet run at tempo for the last 2-3 months. I did originally learn it from the TAB and started to play slow at first to get it under my fingers. When I play it at a gig I get it wrong most of the time and it does piss me off, but sometimes when I'm in the right mood I hit it, but I will always practise at tempo until I get it right.
I suppose players should mix it up and not be put off from trying the impossible once in a while.
Alors! Un, deux...
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Postby lukejazz » Mon Jul 26, 2004 8:59 pm

I feel I must once again post this very important website address: : :wink:

http://tinyurl.com/2g582
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Postby Djazz Nomad » Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:44 am

Yeah Lukejazz that's the way! :D :D
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