Synthetics scales

The first thirty years are the worst

Moderators: Zoot, Teddy Dupont

Synthetics scales

Postby CHIVIASH » Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:35 pm

Hello every body !

First : I hope you will excuse my bad english because it is awfull (I'm surely going to make you laugh, and it is comprehesible :lol: ). But I'll do of my best to make me understand .
:wink:
So that, if you answer my question try to use simple words , not slang as I need to look in a dictionnery ...
Thank you

Well, I would like to know if you use those kind of scales in your play of gypsy jazz or jazz be-bop or any kind of jazz :

Hindou / Harmonic major / Persin / Spanish / Double harmonic / Major harmonic / Lydian augmented / Lydien dominant ...

There are many others but I've mentioned juste a few of them .

Best regards
User avatar
CHIVIASH
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:07 pm

Postby Teddy Dupont » Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:16 pm

I haven't a clue what you are talking about but that's a quite brilliant sketch you are using for you avatar. :D
User avatar
Teddy Dupont
Moderator
 
Posts: 2036
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:27 am
Location: Dupont Towers

Postby jack » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:03 am

Lydian Dominant gets some use in gypsy jazz style playing, and I'm sure that it is used much more in bebop contexts. I'm not sure I'm familiar with the names you're using for a lot of these scales so examples of each scale might help. For instance, Lydian Dominant (a scale I know as Lydian b7) could be spelled: C D E F# G A Bb.

In general, I think you will find that most of these scales get used sparingly. I think in general, people are thinking more about arpeggios as building blocks for their solos anyways.

I also believe, you don't want to worry too much about scales or arpeggios. I hope people are more concerned about melody, than the scales. I'm guessing a lot of the players on this forum don't think about theoretical things when they are soloing. Although, if people have a tune where they love to incorporate the persian scale I'm all ears.
Last edited by jack on Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
jack
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:19 am
Location: Jamaica Plain, MA USA

Postby Phydeaux3 » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:51 am

[quote="jack"]
I hope people are more concerned about melody, than the scales. /quote]

Hear Hear!!!
Alors! Un, deux...
User avatar
Phydeaux3
 
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 4:59 pm
Location: Stuck to seat 38

Postby Gmajor » Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:10 pm

Joe Pass alway's seems to get a mention these day's and why not. (Joe Pass you dont get Gigs playing scales learn some song's.keep Djangoin.
Gmajor
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:48 pm

Postby CHIVIASH » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:46 pm

Well, I already do thinking through arpeggios, but I saw those scales in a book of jazz harmony and I thought it could be intresting to explore them ...


for your information here are the scales in question :

Hindou C/D/E/F/G/Ab/Bb

Double harmonic C/Db/E/F/G/Ab/B

Spanish C/Db/E/F/G/Ab/Bb

Major harmonic C/D/E/F/G/Ab/B

Lydian augmented C/D/E/F#/G#/A/B


Thanks
User avatar
CHIVIASH
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:07 pm

Postby Ganondorf » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:05 pm

them scales are good. but how would you use them in an improvising situation?
It looks like you have done them all in the key of c (is this correct?)How would you use them while improvising in the key of c? Would the flats and sharps not clash?
User avatar
Ganondorf
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:02 pm

Postby CHIVIASH » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:42 pm

Ganondorf wrote:them scales are good. but how would you use them in an improvising situation?



That is going to be my 2nd question :D , but before I need to find someone who is using them .

Ganondorf wrote:It looks like you have done them all in the key of c (is this correct?)


Yes I did it purposely in order to be easyer to compare .
User avatar
CHIVIASH
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:07 pm

Postby clausci » Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:25 pm

CHIVIASH wrote:
Ganondorf wrote:them scales are good. but how would you use them in an improvising situation?



That is going to be my 2nd question :D , but before I need to find someone who is using them .

Ganondorf wrote:It looks like you have done them all in the key of c (is this correct?)


Yes I did it purposely in order to be easyer to compare .


Uhm, i am not a super expert of jazz improvising. buti think that in the case of these scales does 'nt have to do the root note of the scale with the tonality.
in some traditional music the scale Dm Harmonic is used on the tonality of A major ... so i think these scales are somthing like this(in the C starting example)...maybe the hindou could sound good on a C7+ chord so in F. the double harmonic could sound good on a G7 chord ,i think for these scales it depends a lot by the context of the tune. somebody correct me please if i have said bullshits....
Claudio
User avatar
clausci
 
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:30 pm

Postby Gmajor » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:17 pm

Hey I'll tell you summut for free you are all talking a load of Ragas
Gmajor
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 7:48 pm

Postby Cattermole » Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:04 pm

clausci wrote: somebody correct me please if i have said bullshits....


I don't know if you have or you haven't, but I love that sentence.
Cattermole
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:01 pm

Postby nwilkins » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:07 pm

Ganondorf wrote: It looks like you have done them all in the key of c (is this correct?)How would you use them while improvising in the key of c? Would the flats and sharps not clash?


they are not in the key of C, they just happen to start on the note C for ease of comparison. For instance this scale is in the key of C:

DEFGABCD

and this scale is not (it is in F):

CDEFGABbC
User avatar
nwilkins
 
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 2:02 am

Postby BluesBopHarry » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:58 pm

Lydian augmented is a mode of melodic minor as are the Hindou and Lydian b7.
A melodic minor: A B C D E F# G#
C Lydian Augmented: C D E F# G# A B Third mode
E Hindou: E F# G# A B C D Fifth mode also called Mixo b6

As far as I know melodic minor (and it`s modes) is not used often in this style, though Bireli and some of the more modern players sometimes use them.
For the other scales I think is more or less the same.
In the jazz bop genre you will certainly hear them used, and so as much as Gypsy and other styles mix you`ll have an oportunity the play them and hear them played.
But as some said before, scales are not as important as arpeggios in this music and in the end what you want are beautiful melodies.
You might consider using the Jim Hall aproach of thinking about seven inside notes, (CDEFGAB in tyhe key of C) and five outside ones (Db, Eb Gb, Bb, Ab) and mix them to your taste. And always use your ears, they should dictate what you play.
BluesBopHarry
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Mexico

Postby CHIVIASH » Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:37 am

BluesBopHarry wrote:Lydian augmented is a mode of melodic minor as are the Hindou and Lydian b7.
A melodic minor: A B C D E F# G#
C Lydian Augmented: C D E F# G# A B Third mode
E Hindou: E F# G# A B C D Fifth mode also called Mixo b6



Bravo, very good analyse .
User avatar
CHIVIASH
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:07 pm

Postby BluesBopHarry » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:32 am

Glad to help.
BluesBopHarry
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Mexico


Return to How to play Gypsy Jazz guitar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests