learning slowly

The first thirty years are the worst

Moderators: Zoot, Teddy Dupont

learning slowly

Postby ewino » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:12 am

Hi .
I have been playing the gypsy style now for around 2and a half years .i had a major accident inbetween this time that stopped me playing for some months .

I practice on averadge an hour a day (i also have a mortgage ,life's a bummer )and sometimes i practice a little more .
I am beginning to get a little disheartened at the fact that some of these songs and things i am playing are still not perfect ...i may be setting my sights to high but believe i should be better than i am .My ear is good and i pick things up very quickly but perfecting things like fast appegio's and triplets seem beyond me .I wake up most mornings and think will this be the day i get this lick?... finaly ,can someone please put my mind at ease and tell me what monstrous task i have taken on :roll: ?i am without a person to practice with and can only play to backing tracks .could this be an underlying issue to my slow progress?
Sorry to be a sorry sounding gitt!! :cry:


All the best DNM.David
David hamilton
ewino
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:27 pm

Postby Ricardo » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:23 am

Hi there. It's difficult to know your standard without hearing you play - I've heard fantastic players who think they are crap and vice versa. I've been at it for just over four years and would say that it is only now feeling comfortable however there are still many things I struggle with and I will always be learning. I'm not an incredibly fast learner and I have maintained about an hour or two per day over four years to get to a fairly comfortable stage. Just keep at it!
User avatar
Ricardo
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:01 pm

Postby stublag » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:03 pm

Don't get too disheartened!-- speaking personally this is the most difficult style i've ever played--and at various times i've played Brazilian music,Prog rock,Folk fingerstyle,Classical and Bebop.
What makes this music uniquely demanding in my experience is its physical demands on the player, especially the strength required in the left hand and the agility of the right hand-- and that is before we even consider the arpeggios(particularly difficult to play on guitar), the scales and all the other stuff that goes into the style.
Remember that the style was invented by the genius that was Django;so in a sense, and including even the greatest players, we're all chasing his tail.
I do think the biggest mistake is to run before you can walk --you see players who start off with 'Montagne st Genevieve' or 'La Gitane' without learning the basics of learning the changes of 'All of Me' or 'Minor Swing' and the basics of pick technique--the gypsies always find this mildly amusing even if most of them are too polite to say anything
The bottom line is that this Music can be learnt but only if you really commit to at least 2 or 3 hours a day minimum practice--it also requires huge self discipline.
Its no coincidence that players like Yorgui or Ritary have said they think nothing of practicing 6 or 7 hours a day, at least in the beginning, to get good at the style---thats why they can play the hell out of the instrument.
Best advice is to meet and play with the masters of the style rather than try learning by yourself which i think is very difficult to do--luckily i can't think of another style where it is as easy to come into direct contact with the top players--you'll learn alot more in a couple of hours in the company of a Ritary, Stochelo or Dennis Chang or Andreas than you will do alone at home.Their generosity never ceases to amaze me and is a unique aspect of this music.
Main thing is not to beat yourself up too much(i speak from experience!)and enjoy the Music.Good luck !!
stublag
Moderator
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:34 pm
Location: london

THANKYOU

Postby ewino » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:52 pm

Stublag & Ricardo.

Many thanks for the supporting words .

Before i started with gypsy jazz, i could manage three chord stuff and some rock&roll lead licks .
As has been kindly explained to me, i think i have began to run before i can walk .I learned Le.Gitane over the months and although i know it off by heart my hand caves in when i go from the neck to frets further up the body .the articulation and timing caves in so to speak .
I learned from Angelo debarres & sammy daussat book "the secrets" but skipped the chords and the swing for lead playing ..needless to say i am back learning chords .I struggle with waltzes and find it a very serious business trying to get my fingers round them .I am going to learn chords and try to master some easier standards . once i learn a song i then find it very difficult playing along with the backing track,it's almost another learning curve to play with the music behind me.anyway thanks for the advice and kind supprt.
Happy new year .

DAVID
David hamilton
ewino
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:27 pm

Postby Swing This! » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:10 pm

nice reply Stu! I'd like to add that many newbies think it's about the speed and try to play too fast before they can run, where I feel it's more important to consider the choice of notes and timing.

I think Thrip does a real nice job in his example of Minor Swing below; check out his choice of notes and timing, as opposed to speed...great stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWL3L7GRLnE

I've been slowly learning this style for past 10 years, and you put in as much time as you can devote around your day job etc etc... I wish I'd had such youtube vids around when I started learning- I think Thrip's youtube page contains some invaluable lessons for all players. (and he's not paying me to say that!) cheers and best of luck, Phil
User avatar
Swing This!
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:43 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Postby Thrip » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:47 pm

Thanks Phil, but you know I only play slowly because I can't play fast :D :oops:

Good advice from everyone here.
User avatar
Thrip
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:45 pm
Location: West London

Postby stublag » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:50 am

Yes Phil Thrip is getting too good!....and i second your recomendation re his lessons/vids
Last few months i've been exclusively working on timing--something you don't really hear people talking about enough.
Its interesting to learn a Django solo purely in terms of its rhythmic shape and structure--the amazing thing about Django is that absolutely every note swung and was placed perfectly--one tip i got from Ducato is to think rhythmically with the LEFT hand--its strange how on the whole most of us rely only on the right hand to handle the rhythmic side of things when soloing---i've found it really helpful to tap out each phrase with the left hand(thinking purely rhythmically)eg I'll see you in my dreams
I'd say that what distinguishes the best players in this music comes down in the end to 'control' -- and that comes from sure technique and good rhythmic foundations
stublag
Moderator
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:34 pm
Location: london

Postby Swing This! » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:11 pm

stublag wrote:...the amazing thing about Django is that absolutely every note swung...


Good point Stu - I was jamming with a buddy last night on Them Their Eyes and we stopped to listen to Django's HCQ version and we were blown away by how much his solo swung on every note - giving his solo a class that few attain. Fapy also swings like that.

Interesting also that you mention "think rhythmically with the LEFT hand" -something I've not heard before...not quite sure how to apply that. Perhaps you could post a youtube demo?

cheers

Phil
User avatar
Swing This!
 
Posts: 364
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:43 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Postby stublag » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:38 pm

Swing This! wrote:
stublag wrote:...the amazing thing about Django is that absolutely every note swung...


Good point Stu - I was jamming with a buddy last night on Them Their Eyes and we stopped to listen to Django's HCQ version and we were blown away by how much his solo swung on every note - giving his solo a class that few attain. Fapy also swings like that.

Interesting also that you mention "think rhythmically with the LEFT hand" -something I've not heard before...not quite sure how to apply that. Perhaps you could post a youtube demo?

cheers

Phil



Actually Phil i think its one area where Fapy,and with the greatest respect because he is a hero of mine, does not really emulate Django--Djangos playing is way more dynamic rhythmically than Fapys (compare Fapys version of "I wonder where my baby is tonight" to Django's final take for example)
The left hand rhythm idea is a difficult idea to articulate(with words!) and Youtube demos are beyond my means at present but basically i mean the left hand isn't just placed 'waiting' on the fretboard, it's more 'active' -- the notes are almost hammered as they are picked--it makes everything more incisive rhythmically.
Its very easy to get seduced by the melodic/harmonic aspects of Djangos music so we forget that often its the rhythmic stuff that reallymakes the style unique.
stublag
Moderator
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:34 pm
Location: london

Postby Munta909 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:26 pm

i played guitar and bass for about a dozen years, pretty much packed it in for another dozen years when i got into sound engineering and dance music production, and now i'm back on the six string addiction - looking to master gypsy jazz style, should give me a challenging hobby for the next 30 or 40 years! lol

what has really been helping me recently with regard to developing speed is practicing accuracy of finger placement, i'm talkin differences of a few millimeters at most, being very very exact about the specific part of the fingertip that connects with the string - particularly with the ring finger on the left hand

some exercises that require playing a note with the little finger, then moving to a higher string with the ring finger i find i can do reasonably at medium speeds but when i try to really pick up the pace the ring finger is landing a few mm further away from the nail which means the string is not so well controlled, it is like the finger is almost flopping

i've been making exercises that require me to really pull back and correctly place that ring finger, point it directly down onto the fretboard with an absolute exactness

i can really feel the strain in my forearm muscle and tendons as i do this, so i take it carefully like a body building exercise, but i've been focussing on this for a couple weeks now and it has really really helped me tidy up my performance, make it smoother, and smoother means it is possible to go faster more easily

tidy technique

hope this makes sense and is of some use

:D
Munta909
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:14 pm


Return to How to play Gypsy Jazz guitar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron