How to improvise over 7 chords.

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Postby Agent » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:35 pm

I agree with everything troychapman says and want to add this: it all depends what the seventh chord's doing in the tune, where it's all going, what scale degree it is of the original key, &c. The diminished/b9 ideas work best when followed by a minor chord a fourth above, e.g. Minor Swing. It's best to start by hearing what the heads of your favourite tunes do when they hit a seventh.
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Postby Ganondorf » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:04 pm

i like to keep it simple by playing the 13th, 18th and a fast lick over the dominant diatonic raised fifth.I find it works best aswell if you also add a subtle harmonised 8th.
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Postby troychapman » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:28 pm

Ganondorf wrote:i like to keep it simple by playing the 13th, 18th and a fast lick over the dominant diatonic raised fifth.I find it works best aswell if you also add a subtle harmonised 8th.


I think "subtle" and "harmonized 8th" are contradictory terms. At least in the extended pedagogy of the learned jazz paradigm of the late 20th century.
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Postby Agent » Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:58 pm

Ganondorf wrote:i like to keep it simple by playing the 13th, 18th and a fast lick over the dominant diatonic raised fifth.I find it works best aswell if you also add a subtle harmonised 8th.


I see what you mean, but that usually only works if you miss out every other chord and play the whole tune backwards and in the opposite key. That's what Django was all about.
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Postby Caballero » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:44 pm

Agent wrote:
I see what you mean, but that usually only works if you miss out every other chord and play the whole tune backwards and in the opposite key. That's what Django was all about.



Amen.
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Re: How to improvise over 7 chords.

Postby cornelius » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:26 am

BachelorNo2 wrote:Hi. I've been trying to get my head around improvising and found that I find it really hard to improvise over 7th chords. I've been working from the stephane wrembel book, but i can't seem to be as melodic when I'm playing over, say, a G7 when compared to a G chord. Although they are fairly similar, all i seem to be doing is playing scales and hitting notes! Does anyone have any kind of approach to playing these?


Hi. This is my first post here. I don't know Stephane wrembel's book, but i can say that to play melodically over a dominant chord, you need to have a good idea about its harmonic function in the chord progression. Usually, the dominant 7 is preparing for a chord change to the I. In a G minor Blues, the D7 is tricky because, although it does resolve to I (G-), it hangs out for a long time . Alot of the suggestions above are really good especially diminished for the Django style. Other modern sounds would be to play A melodic minor or D# melodic minor over the D7 which give you different altered tones.

Also, in a G minor blues, you could transition to C- by carefully using a minor ii-v which would be Dmin7b5 G7b9 C-(6).....
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Postby Yann » Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:43 pm

A few suggestions to improvise over V7 chords:

http://www.serendipity-band.com/misc/manouche/src/impro-V7-1-en.htm

Hope that helps.

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Last edited by Yann on Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby T'wayne » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:27 pm

http://www.hyperhipmedia.com/movieexcerpt.html

Here's a link that shows Marcelo Damon giving one of many examples of soloing over a C7 chord. Marcelo encourages the soloist to move away from the standard approach of C7 scales over C7 chords and illustrates some interesting scale/arp substitutions.

I apologize for the self-serving plug, but it is relevant to the topic.

cheers

Wayne
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Postby nwilkins » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:21 pm

f melodic minor is just C7 (mixolydian) with a raised 5th. If you want to add more colour play G melodic minor (C lydian dominant) or Db melodic minor (c altered dominant), or the appropriate diminished and whole tone scales.
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Postby Yann » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:58 am

T'Wayne,

Very nice link! :) It's interesting to hear how a scale can become "alive".

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Postby Gmajor » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:09 pm

play some blues then you will get it good luck
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Postby edan13390 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:55 am

This may not be gypsy jazz type but it may help open your mind to other options which you can then incorporate into gypsy jazz

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Rg0VIEtheoc

Good luck
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Postby Yann » Sun Sep 24, 2006 12:34 pm

Second part of improvisation over V7 chords.

http://www.serendipity-band.com/misc/manouche/src/impro-V7-2-en.htm

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Postby BachelorNo2 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:49 pm

Thanks for the uber cool reply fellas. I'm glad that there has been a so many responses. About my progress on those 7 chords, I have been going through solos and noting down 7 chord phrases, it really helps learning them this way I think. I've been doing this from the Angelo Debarre Astuces book, which is really helping me be that extra bit more melodic.

Thanks!
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Postby BachelorNo2 » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:26 pm

Okay I'm still working on improvising over 7 chords! I'm looking through the Stephane Wrembel book and I don't quite understand how whole tone scale works. Is it the kind of scale you can use on 7 chords that end in a minor? Are there any Django recordings where he uses the whole tone scale?

Any info would be most helpful, thanks!
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