Rest Stroke technique

The first thirty years are the worst

Moderators: Zoot, Teddy Dupont

Rest Stroke technique

Postby Cor » Wed Jul 16, 2003 8:29 am

Can somebody explain to me how to play the rest stroke technique which seems to played by gypsy players.

Thanks in advance
Cor de Visser
Author of Super Guitar Chord Finder
http://www.ready4music.com
User avatar
Cor
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:10 pm

Rest stroke picking

Postby Jazz-phil » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:54 pm

Michael Horowitz has written an excellent book on the technique. It can be acquired from www.djangobooks.com. I know it's a long way round but working through the exercises and seeing the illustrations is probably better than a brief written explanation.

I got the book a couple of months ago and it revolutionised my pick technique. I can't recommend it enough for any newcomers as a great starting point for soloing.
Jazz-phil
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:23 pm
Location: Darwen

Postby djangology » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:21 pm

michael gives you a 2 page schpeal about the "rest stroke" but he doesn't actually explain HOW to physically do it because he doesn't need to. there are suttle differences on how everyone eventually accomplishes it. the problem here is that it is not really explainable. you need to learn it for yourself by emulating good hand position and working on the exercises in his book endlessly for a long period of time. you will eventually "understand". its not something that someone can just tell you to do...

the good thing is that in the process of working through Michaels book, you will learn other things that are hard to merely "explain". for example, how to minimize the energy used by your arm, how to find the right posture, how to angle the guitar, how to sense string position, how to trill, etc...
Last edited by djangology on Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
djangology
 
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:52 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

Postby troychapman » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:23 pm

I have to strongly second that recommendation.

Get Michael's book, follow it closely, and you will save yourself
months, if not years, of work. It is extremely well written and laid out.
User avatar
troychapman
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2003 5:55 pm
Location: Langley, WA

Postby Zoot » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:11 pm

The rest stroke basicly is where the pick follows through and "rests" on the next string below unless you are sweeping through. Many will find that they do this already unless you are from an electric guitar background.

The rest of it is in a nutshell: All down strokes unless on the same string.
Fine for downward progressions but a bugger when playing upwards.
The book has plenty of excersises to get this into your fingers though and is essential reading.

Oh did I mention it's available for a limited time in the hotclub shop?
US citizens get it direct from www.djangobooks.com UK and European players should get it from me. I have about 30 copies left so don't be shy.

KA CHING
User avatar
Zoot
Site Admin
 
Posts: 882
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:48 am
Location: On the edge

Postby TedGottsegen » Wed Jul 16, 2003 9:11 pm

I know not one person who has used Horowitz' book and NOT gotten something out of it. Maybe there are others out there who are preferring to stick to the credo "If you don't have anything nice to say...." but I've seen his book in action everytime I play with him. Troy's and Jazz-Phil's comments are right on. There is work involved and you will get out of it only what you put in.

Best,

Ted
TedGottsegen
Moderator
 
Posts: 533
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 7:51 am
Location: Pioneer Square

Postby bwilkins » Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:04 pm

Hey Fellas, thanks for this thread!!!
I dont believe Ive even heard of the Horowitz book - has it come up before? If so, I sure missed it. Have to admit I'm still having a devil of a time developing right hand technique, smooth, clean, articulate picking. So perhaps his exercises will help me sort things out.

BW
bwilkins
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:59 pm
Location: Maine

Postby djangology » Thu Jul 24, 2003 5:26 pm

Sorry about my original comment above on Michaels book. My comment had the best intentions and was meant to be taken in a positive way in regards to the Gypsy Picking book. My comment actually looked like I was criticizing the book when I really wasn't. It sounded like I was suggesting you could learn this stuff on your own but I had meant to "imply" the use of Michaels book...

Without changing what I was trying to express, I have edited my comment to reflect this... sorry Michael! :oops:
User avatar
djangology
 
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:52 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

Postby bwilkins » Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:07 pm

D'ology. Dont be too hard on yourself. Based on all of your collective comments I orderd Michael's book a few days ago & cant wait for it to arrive.

Can one of you guys answer ?? from out of another thread. ALL of you lot are miles ahead of me, in your basic knowledge of the music. When you get into the detailed analytics - eg, What makes Bireli so great - yer over my head. Re: a remark one of you made: master the 3 minor scales. Well Ive never figured that stuff out, so can you direct me someplace to learn about them & where to apply them?

Many Thanks
bw
bwilkins
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:59 pm
Location: Maine

Postby djangology » Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:20 pm

i probably made the comment ( http://www.hotclub.co.uk/phpBB2Plus/viewtopic.php?t=309 ) on learning the 3 types of minor scales, but if you read that coment again, in context, i was really just answering in terms of the question and my answer shouldn't have been taken as the "one and only way" way to do things, because ITS NOT. :-)

if you want more information related to what I was trying to say, read the weblog entry that I posted on my website recently on July 13th on my site at: http://djangology.net .
User avatar
djangology
 
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:52 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

Postby bwilkins » Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:38 pm

Thanks for the re-direct to your page D'ology. Very helpful indeed! I shall start working at that.

Now, for the applications: where do you use each? That is, which one(s) work nicely over the V7 chord for example, or the ii7 chord, etc.?

[Is this a great forum, or what?]

bw
bwilkins
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:59 pm
Location: Maine

Postby djangology » Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:03 pm

Well, at the great risk of oversimplifying too much, there are three basic chord types that come out of a major scale: Major Seventh, Dominant Seventh, and Minor Seventh. Just finger anything with a major seventh flavor in it over the major seventh chords in a song. Also, you could finger anything with a minor flavor to it over the minor seventh chords in a song. Play anything with a symmetric or dominant flavor over the dominant seventh chords in a tune. You will understand this when you realize that jazz tunes have to obey the laws of music theory in general and rarely do they truly modulate, although its common in ragtime (for example) to replace min7 chords with Dom7th chords, and jazz in general will commonly use other substitutions which I still struggle with, but these things dont break musical law.

In my experience of figuring out solos note for note, the great players seem to be able to hear the chord changes in a song and "instantly" adjust to the new arpeggio or scale that he is playing. I am not yet able to do that because I can't think fast enough yet. At this point I just know that if a song is in C major that i can play C major stuff, A minor stuff, D minor stuff, F diminished, etc. , but I don't actually YET listen to the changes and adjust on the fly. Its too hard at the moment but I am learning. I figure that it will come in time and practice and eventually become easy.
User avatar
djangology
 
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:52 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

Postby justjack » Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:22 am

From bwilkins:
"which one(s) work nicely over the V7 chord for example..."


To add one thing to the above: if you're playing a V7 in a minor key (e.g., Minor Swing), keep the flatted second of that V in mind. That is, if you're playing an E7 in A minor, that F, combined with the third (G#), will sound great as you go back to A minor. And while it sounds obvious once you hear it, I know I struggled for too long playing E mixolydian over E7, so I thought I'd mention it.

And from 'Ology:
"the great players seem to be able to hear the chord changes in a song and "instantly" adjust to the new arpeggio or scale that he is playing. I am not yet able to do that because I can't think fast enough yet."


It's hell, ain't it?
User avatar
justjack
Mad For It
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Western Mass

Postby bwilkins » Fri Jul 25, 2003 11:58 am

It sure dont come easy!

I remember listening to an interview with Oscar Peterson on CBC. That's the very point he made, that jazz musicians have some of the most brilliant minds, precisely because of their lightning fast ability to hear and respond to changes and what the others are playing, and instantly compose meaningful improvisations while doing it.

Terribly humbling :!: :cry:

bw
bwilkins
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:59 pm
Location: Maine

Postby djangology » Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:53 pm

actually, now that I think of it, they probably aren't adjusting on the fly... these guys are adjusting ahead of time, pre-conceiving the next chord change... its just out of my reach!
User avatar
djangology
 
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:52 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA


Return to How to play Gypsy Jazz guitar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron