Alternate VS Rest-Stroke pickers

The first thirty years are the worst

Moderators: Zoot, Teddy Dupont

Postby emicad » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:35 am

BachelorNo2 wrote:I feel that I should update a little. I've been practicing none stop for the past few days and am certain that the rest stroke technique is the one for me! I've mainly been working through the astuces book, watching bireli DVD of other rest strokers as well and am having a lot of fun with the technique. It's starting to feel really natural now, and my wrist just floats over the strings. I've been watching a lot of Django in the Le Jazz Hot clip too. I have a long way to go though to feel fully comfortable playing in this way.

I'm happy to hear this from you, for me wasn't the same thing cause at the beginning of practice i was not so convinced this technique was good for me cause i've played with a different technique for years and my wrist was not relaxed with RS but after a period of hard work this thing became natural and finally comfortable. Practice...practice...paractice... :wink:
I don't know how to help you with the Mike's book but send me a PM i'll see if i can do something for you speaking with Mike.
Bye
Last edited by emicad on Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
emicad
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:56 am
Location: Rome - Italy

Postby emicad » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:55 am

BluesBopHarry wrote:BachelorNo2:
You can find almost all the information you need at: www.djangobooks.com in the Gypsy Picking and Technique sections, read carefully and watch the videos/photos people have posted, and try to get Horowitz´s book as soon as you can, for me is the guide to this technique, and is really cool that you can ask him any questions and he will answer, watch a lot of videos and if possible live performances of the real guys too.
Emicad:
I read about romane technique here:
http://www.djangobooks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=640
And dont get me wrong i do like his playing, but he doesnt seem to be a purist of GP.

Thanks for the precious infos, i've learned something more about Romane, also if looking back the videos i have i can see clairly his forearm movements, it's true, strange i've not seen this thing before, thanks.
User avatar
emicad
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:56 am
Location: Rome - Italy

Postby frater » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:13 pm

I 've read Michael's comments and, with all the due respect, I'm a little bit perplexed. Frankly, I don't give a damn if Romane's wrist may look stiff... his playing certainly is not. He has superior phrasing, speed and accuracy compared to most GJ players... plus he's one of the few composer around in this style. Not bad for a guy who's not even manouche!
"Et pas besoin d'avoir de fines moustaches pour jouer cette musique!" B. Lagréne
frater
 
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:53 pm

Postby BluesBopHarry » Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:09 am

Thanks for the precious infos, i've learned something more about Romane, also if looking back the videos i have i can see clairly his forearm movements, it's true, strange i've not seen this thing before, thanks.

No problem, man!
Again i should say that i agree Romane´s playing is awesome even if he´s not as traditional as other players, beautiful compositions too.And the Espirit book is well worth having for anybody into this style.
With that said I wish you all good luck.
Swing on!
-Harry
P.S check out this really cool brand new sub-forum of djangobooks, and feel free to add new ones.
http://www.djangobooks.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=24
BluesBopHarry
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Mexico

Postby radiotone » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:37 am

frater wrote:I 've read Michael's comments and, with all the due respect, I'm a little bit perplexed. Frankly, I don't give a damn if Romane's wrist may look stiff... his playing certainly is not. He has superior phrasing, speed and accuracy compared to most GJ players... plus he's one of the few composer around in this style. Not bad for a guy who's not even manouche!


I think writing a method book is a little like writing a polemic. If you load it up with too many conditional points or flexible rules, you end up with a somewhat frustrating "method."

So you say "this is how you play it" or "this is how most people play it" rather than "players A, B, and C play it this way. Players E,F, and G play it that way. Player Q prefers not to play it at all if he can help it."

Michael is realistic enough to point out that his discripition of Gypsy picking is not manditory for players in the style, and I think he basically encourages players to take what they can from his methodology and come up with the best, most natural feeling technique they can.

Maybe I'm being too generous. I'm not the most disciplined student who owns Gypsy Picking, so maybe I actually followed every point religiously, I'd feel it was all more of a struggle than my lazy self is actually going through right now. Loosey-goosey feels good to me though.

Who was it that said "we can get it to work in practice, we just can't get it to work in theory" :) ? That's Romane, I guess.

And of course his compositions aren't dependent on his picking technique. I guess Romane gets some love and some criticism among the Django faithful, more so than say Birelli or Fapy. Thanks for standing up for a guy you think needs more love! Good compositions are nothing to sneeze at; lord knows jazz has always had more gifted sololists than writers. Not that that stops every gifted soloist alive from larding up albums with mediocre compositions.
User avatar
radiotone
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:03 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Postby emicad » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:11 am

frater wrote:I 've read Michael's comments and, with all the due respect, I'm a little bit perplexed. Frankly, I don't give a damn if Romane's wrist may look stiff... his playing certainly is not. He has superior phrasing, speed and accuracy compared to most GJ players... plus he's one of the few composer around in this style. Not bad for a guy who's not even manouche!

I totally agree with you, maybe he is not a purist with the hand movement, but i repeat his rest stroke technique is perfect and most of the pieces he recorded, except for his own beautiful compositions, are classic tunes, his choice is always remarkable. Don't forget he have recorded "impair et valse"! His playing is really traditional and hot. I don't care if he's not a gypsy.
User avatar
emicad
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:56 am
Location: Rome - Italy

Postby stublag » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:00 pm

emicad wrote:
frater wrote:I 've read Michael's comments and, with all the due respect, I'm a little bit perplexed. Frankly, I don't give a damn if Romane's wrist may look stiff... his playing certainly is not. He has superior phrasing, speed and accuracy compared to most GJ players... plus he's one of the few composer around in this style. Not bad for a guy who's not even manouche!

I totally agree with you, maybe he is not a purist with the hand movement, but i repeat his rest stroke technique is perfect and most of the pieces he recorded, except for his own beautiful compositions, are classic tunes, his choice is always remarkable. Don't forget he have recorded "impair et valse"! His playing is really traditional and hot. I don't care if he's not a gypsy.



The important thing in this style is the use of the rest stroke technique;whether you play from the forearm or wrist is secondary to that;look at Dorado,Ninine or Mandino when they play---they play from the forearm primarily--they get great tone and volume because of the rest stroke technique.
As emicad points out Romane uses impeccable rest stroke technique.
Stu
stublag
Moderator
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:34 pm
Location: london

Postby emicad » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:16 pm

stublag wrote:The important thing in this style is the use of the rest stroke technique;whether you play from the forearm or wrist is secondary to that;look at Dorado,Ninine or Mandino when they play---they play from the forearm primarily--they get great tone and volume because of the rest stroke technique.
As emicad points out Romane uses impeccable rest stroke technique.
Stu

Yes, it's so. I can add another thing, one specific peculiarity of Romane is the dinamic of the sound, he's able to play mixed soft and hard notes during a solo passage, he can make his volume grow or alleviate gradually as a "fade" effect and, at last, he's funny to see, he's a great character.
Where i can find a video performance of Mandino?
User avatar
emicad
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:56 am
Location: Rome - Italy

Postby Cattermole » Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:57 pm

How you blokes who've used alternate picking all your lives cope with changing your styles with all these downstrokes and sweeping beats me. I've never used a pick, so theoretically have no old habits to break, but it's still doing my head in.
Cattermole
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:01 pm

Postby emicad » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:24 pm

Cattermole wrote:How you blokes who've used alternate picking all your lives cope with changing your styles with all these downstrokes and sweeping beats me. I've never used a pick, so theoretically have no old habits to break, but it's still doing my head in.

What you wanna say, i've not understood
User avatar
emicad
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:56 am
Location: Rome - Italy

Postby Cattermole » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:02 pm

What you wanna say, i've not understood

What I'm saying is:

There are a lot of guitar players here who for many years have played different styles of music on the guitar using alternate picking.

Over a period of many years and thousands of hours of practice they have developed a very solid alternate picking technique that is at the same time a habit.

Now, although they are very good guitarists, they want to play GJ so they have to change this technique, use the pick in a completely different way and break old habits, which we all know is very difficult.

I, on the other hand have, for many years, only played classical guitar and never used a pick, therefore learning to play GJ should in some ways be easier as I have no pick technique to change and no habits to break.

But it isn't. :D
Cattermole
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:01 pm

Postby emicad » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:12 pm

Cattermole wrote:What you wanna say, i've not understood

What I'm saying is:

There are a lot of guitar players here who for many years have played different styles of music on the guitar using alternate picking.

Over a period of many years and thousands of hours of practice they have developed a very solid alternate picking technique that is at the same time a habit.

Now, although they are very good guitarists, they want to play GJ so they have to change this technique, use the pick in a completely different way and break old habits, which we all know is very difficult.

I, on the other hand have, for many years, only played classical guitar and never used a pick, therefore learning to play GJ should in some ways be easier as I have no pick technique to change and no habits to break.

But it isn't. :D

Why you say "so they have to change this technique"...
Is not compulsory, is a question of choices, in Italy we use to say "Non è scritto da nessuna parte" that means " This thing isn't wrote nowhere", a way to say that isn't a precise rule.
Anyway in your case seems to be (for me) not more easy cause isn't easy for no one to play this style, but more natural, cause as you say you must to create from the beginning your picking style. Another good thing is your classical background, a solid base, a great way to go through the guitar. Remember also that in this genre there is a lot of classical influence, listen to the unaccompanied Django pieces to have an idea.
My best whishes for your rihgt hand 8)
User avatar
emicad
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:56 am
Location: Rome - Italy

Postby devinci » Tue Nov 08, 2005 8:25 pm

We change our alternative to gypsy picking because we aknowlage the superiority of it.
devinci
 
Posts: 396
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:56 pm
Location: West London

Postby DennisC » Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:09 pm

i don't think that way: "breaking old habits"... since i can easily switch between both styles... it's more a question of developing new ones!
DennisC
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:05 pm

Postby emicad » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:09 am

DennisC wrote:i don't think that way: "breaking old habits"... since i can easily switch between both styles... it's more a question of developing new ones!

Right
User avatar
emicad
 
Posts: 803
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:56 am
Location: Rome - Italy

PreviousNext

Return to How to play Gypsy Jazz guitar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron