gypsy pumping

The first thirty years are the worst

Moderators: Zoot, Teddy Dupont

gypsy pumping

Postby james hart » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:11 am

hello everyone. so i thought i had le pompe down. i could keep it tight with other people. then i got the bireli dvd. it seems i had been playing a boom - chick , like the hillbilly boys, but these guys are playing more of a struumm - thwack, and the little upstroke rake is not on the " and ", it seems to be on the 3 of the triplet, the swing beat. ( duuhhhh )
what do you think ?
shut up and play your guitar
james hart
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:26 am
Location: phoenix,az

Postby DennisC » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:20 am

the up stroke for the rhythm players who subscribe to that school cannot be quantized because it is the generally same regardless of tempo, it's meant to be as close to the dowstroke as possible...

the sound should be more like VROOM tchack... you need to get the 1st and 3rd beats to growl... the secret is in the bass, that's the typical gypsy sound, i make students practice this with chords that utilize all six strings... i

ie: 5 5 4 5 5 5

on the 1st beat, the bass strings need to growl, that has to do with the way you attack the strings, not a whip but more of a "woosh" kinda sound ... and it also has to do with how you release the strings on the left hand, it needs to be timed right...

on the second beats, it is extremely important to hit ALL strings... regardless of whether they're used or not.... which is why i make my students use that D9 chord as a test to see if all the notes are sounding properly...

good luck
DennisC
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:05 pm

Postby DennisC » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:21 am

btw it's LA pompe (not le) :wink:
DennisC
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:05 pm

Re: gypsy pumping

Postby DennisC » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:25 am

james hart wrote:i could keep it tight with other people.


that's a problem that i address with my students as well....

keeping it tight with other people of course is important, but few realize what is actually going on, in almost all the jam sessions (except when playing with the masters) i've been to, the tendency is the following:

on medium tempo tunes: speed up like crazy!

on uptempo tunes: to slow down like crazy!

that's something that people don't seem to notice when they play... with that in mind, one realizes how difficult playing rhythm guitar is

tempo fluctuations is normal, it's near-impossible to be metrnome likle but at the same time DRASTIC changes in tempo are not normal
DennisC
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:05 pm

Postby justjack » Thu Sep 15, 2005 7:58 pm

Having the Bireli disc is a great tool-finding a tune you know and trying to play along really highlights what you need to work on. Dennis' advice about the left hand timing is really important, too; it so often gets overlooked as people concentrate on the right hand stuff, but when it's wrong, it's UGLY.

Best,
Jack.
User avatar
justjack
Mad For It
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Western Mass

gypsy pumping

Postby james hart » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:42 pm

dennis, jack, thank you. you explain these moves better than i do,
i think i'm in the zone. so some rythm players dont use the upstroke,
is that what you mean by "players who subscribe to that school"
i notice it is NOT all over the place on the bireli dvd. does it tend to get in the way, is it too difficult to keep a group of players upstroking at the same time? thank you
shut up and play your guitar
james hart
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:26 am
Location: phoenix,az

Postby james hart » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:43 pm

also, i live in phoenix, over 5 million people, while there are lots of very good jazz players, where are the django guy's. teachers ?
is anybody out there
shut up and play your guitar
james hart
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:26 am
Location: phoenix,az

Postby james hart » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:57 pm

btw, aren't vroom and thak the name of two king crimson albums. think fripp might be a closet hot club fan
shut up and play your guitar
james hart
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:26 am
Location: phoenix,az

Postby Thrip » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:42 pm

james hart wrote:btw, aren't vroom and thak the name of two king crimson albums. think fripp might be a closet hot club fan


There was a tv programme about Fripp a long time ago with film of him and Andy Summers jamming - they were playing "Nuages".
User avatar
Thrip
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:45 pm
Location: West London

Postby james hart » Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:10 am

i think i've seen that. i know it was them, just wasn't familiar with this music at the time.
shut up and play your guitar
james hart
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:26 am
Location: phoenix,az

Re: gypsy pumping

Postby justjack » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:40 am

james hart wrote:dennis, jack, thank you. you explain these moves better than i do,
i think i'm in the zone. so some rythm players dont use the upstroke,
is that what you mean by "players who subscribe to that school"
i notice it is NOT all over the place on the bireli dvd. does it tend to get in the way, is it too difficult to keep a group of players upstroking at the same time? thank you

also, i live in phoenix, over 5 million people, while there are lots of very good jazz players, where are the django guy's. teachers ?
is anybody out there


Not everyone uses the upstroke-it's mostly associated with the prewar sound, which is the 'classic' La Pompe to most people's ear. More modern players often drop it altogether (if you take a S. Wrembel workshop, he probally won't mention it at all). I think it's easier to get a grasp on things by leaving it out at first, especially if you're not playing with someone who's really got it down. Bad habits die hard.

As for teachers, you might want to ask the guys in the Hot Club of Tucson for advice; maybe one of them gives lessons. You'll find them here:
http://www.hotcluboftucson.com/
Another idea is to check out Michael Horowitz's online lessons-at five bucks a pop they're a great resource. They generally include 5 or more pages of text in a pdf file as well as a sound file for each example. Check it out here: http://tinyurl.com/8nofw

Best,
Jack.
User avatar
justjack
Mad For It
 
Posts: 1855
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:40 pm
Location: Western Mass

Postby james hart » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:59 am

cool links, thanks again, this isn't saying much for phoenix. glorified cowtown. about La Pompe, do you know if this rythm existed in the gypsy repitoire before swing came around
shut up and play your guitar
james hart
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:26 am
Location: phoenix,az

Postby radiotone » Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:05 pm

For those hungering for tips on la pompe, DennisC recently expanded on the thoughts he posted above on this thread at Djangobooks.com:

http://djangobooks.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 8e61904a14

This combined with the "La Pompe in America before Django" thread here

( http://www.hotclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1225 ), have been the most helpful to me.
User avatar
radiotone
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:03 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Postby djangology » Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:11 pm

like the hillbilly boys, but these guys are playing more of a struumm - thwack, and the little upstroke rake is not on the " and ", it seems to be on the 3 of the triplet, the swing beat.


your right, it has some "vague" resemblence to "texas backup" style rhythm.
User avatar
djangology
 
Posts: 1031
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 7:52 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA

Postby Schoscho » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:09 pm

c'est la pompe:

Image

:wink:
User avatar
Schoscho
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:12 am
Location: Recklinghausen, Germany

Next

Return to How to play Gypsy Jazz guitar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron