Pickups - Bartollini, Stimer, slim neck pickup...help

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Pickups - Bartollini, Stimer, slim neck pickup...help

Postby lnb » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:20 am

I have listened to a lot of selmer style guitars played with Stimers attached and not been impressed with the sound with the exception of Matcho Winterstein at the Manouche last year but having recently heard Romanes guitar with a Bartollini pickup attached to the neck i was most impressed. I have been experimenting with a mix of bigtone and jazz neck pickup and like the results but i cant find a jazz neck pickup that is slim enough to fit under the strings.......HELP
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Postby nwilkins » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:00 pm

if you learn to use them right then the Stimers can produce a jazz sound that rivals just about anything, since they are essentially the same style pick ups as the highly sought after early DeArmonds. Get one, plug it into a nice tube amp, turn the treble down, add a hint of reverb and voila! Of course you need a nice guitar too :)
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Postby blindbluesandjazz » Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:54 pm

Have you tried a Dearmond archtop pickup? I don't know for sure if they would fit or not, but they are pretty thin, and I would think that they could be attached with the bracket just like on an archtop. I use a model 1100 (on my archtop) and the sound is fantastic. There are also roundhole dearmonds, although I don't know if they would fit in an oval hole selmer.
They sound just like the archtop pickups, and tend to be cheaper.
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Postby lnb » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:34 pm

Yeh tried one but to thick to go under the strings, its a Stimer by the look of things.
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Postby GitanePlayer » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:47 pm

Get one, plug it into a nice tube amp, turn the treble down,


I've never quite understood the 'jazz' electric sound - turning all the treble off to produce a sound with no tone at all... you might as well be listening to a sine wave!!
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Postby nwilkins » Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:30 pm

tsk tsk, I'm not giving instructions on how to produce that boring cotton woolly tone, so I shall clarify:

Given that
1) these guitars are generally rather trebly
2) you are using thin wound strings (Argentines)

the tone will naturally be more trebly/thin sounding if you do not adjust the settings on your amp. I am not saying you should turn the treble all the way down, but some adjustment is necessary.
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Postby TedGottsegen » Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:38 am

Hi GitanePlayer,

GitanePlayer wrote:
Get one, plug it into a nice tube amp, turn the treble down,


I've never quite understood the 'jazz' electric sound - turning all the treble off to produce a sound with no tone at all... you might as well be listening to a sine wave!!


You're thinking of that Jim Hall sound with the treble turn off - the sound is flat, muddy and uber boring. Mainstream players like Tal Farlow, Jimmy Raney, Rene Thomas, Wes, Grant Green and Barney Kessel (my favorite of that style) got a super fat, meaty sound.

Personally, I think that a players should work with all the knobs on the deck to find the warm, smooth sound that you the player likes to hear. If that means turning the treble down (which in my experience has a tendency to muddy the sound) than so be it. To get the good sound, have something in your head that you want to hear and work the dials, pick-up location (flush against the fingerboard, or back toward the bridge or right in the middle). Keep in mind the Rene Thomas, Raney, Kessel sounds were obtain from heavy strings from a Charlie Christian style pick-up, you won't get that type of sound exactly, but you can get close. You just have to get that sound in your head and work towards it.

As for Gypsy stylists, the ones who stopped playing acoustic guitar almost altogether and made the dedicated switch to electric guitar got amazing sounds out of their Selmer/Favino/Busato/Stimers. That's the trick, in order to understand it, you have to use it, exclusively and alter your style to accomodate it. Samy Daussat told me it took him almost 3 years to understand how to play with a Stimer, and he played just about every day! Henri Crolla had a great electric tone, but when he was playing acoustic, it sounded thin to me.

The problem that 90% of the players in this style today have when they play with a Stimer are that:

1. They don't have their guitars set-up right. They just toss it in the soundhole and play, which is incorrect. The guitar needs to be set-up, the action needs to be correct. If the strings are too close to the strings, the sound sort of cancels itself out.

2. They play too hard. When the Stimer is attached to the top of the guitar, not only does it block the soundhole, obscuring the sound, but it also dampens the top (which is why Stimers almost never feedback) so they play even extra hard to hear the sound because they aren't listening through the amp, but through the soundhole. The result is this sort of pseudo acoustic/electric mess.

3. Amplification - A stimer through an AER is decent (some players I have heard can dial in a good sound, others not so much). But to get the best sound, as Nick suggests, an electric guitar amp is required (considering the guitarist itself is being turned INTO an electric guitar).

4. The Guitars Themselves - Most modern guitars made outside of France have fingerboards which are way too thin to accomodate an Stimer (including Gitanes), which make setting them up difficult, but not impossible. Again, if you're not a guitar tech guy and you want to use a Stimer, bring you instrument to a repair guy and talk to him/her about it. Most guitars set-up great for an acoustic sound will work well with a Stimer, so it's win/win.

Best,

Ted
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Postby justjack » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:09 am

TedGottsegen wrote:You're thinking of that Jim Hall sound with the treble turn off - the sound is flat, muddy and uber boring. Mainstream players like...Barney Kessel (my favorite of that style) got a super fat, meaty sound.



Yes! In fact, one of the non-Hot Club Grappelli records that gets a lot of play around here is a Black Lion disc with Barney. (An aside: it features Perdido, which should really be played by more of us; it's a perfect fit.)

TedGottsegen wrote: Henri Crolla had a great electric tone, but when he was playing acoustic, it sounded thin to me.


Again, Yes!

Best,
Jack.
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Postby lnb » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:58 pm

Has anyone tried the Miller S51 stimer style pickup.
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Postby chap » Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:09 pm

Ponticelli used a bartolini in his Dunn. Sounded very nice.
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Re: Pickups - Bartollini, Stimer, slim neck pickup...help

Postby Rene » Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:46 am

lnb wrote: I have been experimenting with a mix of bigtone and jazz neck pickup and like the results


I agree with this idea, and have had good results with an archtop. Warmth and the bulk of the volume from the magnet, and just enough piezo to give the impression of an acoustic instrument. Of course, if your audience are quiet and attentive (I wish :roll: ) nothing beats a microphone.
I see Gypsyguitars.com now have a D-Hole ST48 with two clamps, one on either side. Anyone got one ? Is it a Dupont made replica?
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Postby Rene » Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:35 pm

It's been over two years since I last asked, so I'll ask again. Has anyone tried this gypsyguitars.com D hole model Stimer ST48 ? How was the fit ?
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