Anthem to the voters in the US who will swing really things

Exactly what it says on the tin

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Postby nwilkins » Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:00 pm

Rick, obviously you totally misread my post, if you think that I feel this way:

"emotion and angst are appropriate expressions as long as they are against Bush/Republicans, but any other expression will be met with questioning the intelligence of the individual, as the previous post did."

I am not pro-democrat and anti-Republican, I am simply against the steps taken after 9/11 and call into question the intelligence of anyone (democrat or republican or whatever) who thinks that invading more countries (the kind of action that incited terrorism in the first place) will help to solve the problem. How could it not increase resenment and give more support to Bin Laden?

I think your misreading of my post and assignment to me of a particular ideology (that of the Dems) simply because I voiced disagreement with one aspect of the Bush administration goes to prove my point about the problem of blind party loyalty and the "with us or against us" thinking that pervades US politics right now.


RICK-D15 wrote:One more thing- Politics of fear? What about the politics of negativity, hate and complaint. Looks like the Dems have a lot of evaluating to do.


I think the term "politics of negativity, hate and complaint" applies equally to Republicans and Democrats.
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Postby RICK-D15 » Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:23 pm

Good enough then. We're all entitled to our opinion. If any lesson can be learned from this, it's that we all have different ones.

Music should transcend politics. That's what this board should be about--plain and simple. None of this is humorous in my view. Unless we want this to be just another Straight Dope messageboard, I suggest be ban political discussion.

That's 3 more cents.
"It's all one big note" - Frank Zappa
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Postby Scotsman » Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:46 pm

Wow,so many personal attacks,
I guess we should all agree to disagree without attacking peoples intelligence,saying their unimformed, brainwashed etc. All I was saying is that we should get over these differences,and move on.I certainly was'nt saying you should move just cause you disagree.I was just responding to "Canada is looking better all the time". Whether you like Bush or not he is the President and will be for the next four years. And whether you like it or not we are at war with Brutal people.So I'll say it a different way. I hope we can get over this Partisan stuff and come together in these dangerious times.It certainly is in all of our best interests :!:
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Postby Notorious » Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:20 pm

Well, that's certainly a lot different than what you had said previously. As I said, I value your opinion, as well as everyone elses' and I also appreciate your cander in your reply to my comment. I did not mean it to be so dramatic, it's just in the times we live in, the tone between the two parties, as well as the tone between people, has become so heartless and cruel, and it's difficult sometimes to not lose sight of those who haven't become harden to the process. I certainly wish someone comes along to change our minds in this nature. The country is so divided, more so than it's been in quite a long time.
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Postby Swing This! » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:10 pm

For all those in the UK saddened or angered at the re-election of Bush, recall how it was for in the UK with the long reign of Mrs. Thatcher ~ we got through in the end, somehow. So you 55 million who voted for Kerry just grit your teeth.

Funny thing about Bush is, that I can't think of many other countries that he'd even pass the interview to get a job in politics, let alone ever be close to becoming a leader. It would be doubtful that he'd get hired in the UK, as with his inability to speak English and answer a question with the sightest hint of intelligence, he'd surely fail the interview.

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence who listened to the 3 debates between Kerry & Bush could see that Kerry came across as an intelligent articulate politician and Bush came across as a bumbling ignorant idiot.
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Postby djangology » Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:58 pm

i seem to recall that they were both idiots... :-) it is interesting though how invinsible Kerry seemed during the debates... most likely because there was simply nothing about him that you could criticize simply because he has never done anything.
Last edited by djangology on Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby plankity » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:00 pm

RICK-D15 wrote:....I suggest be ban political discussion.

That's 3 more cents.


I think that would be a regretable thing to do -- RICK-D15, are you on the Yahoo list? If not, you might want to join for a trial period -- they do not allow any political discourse on that list. I posted the lyrics to "Undecided" here because they would not allow it there (I think that is pretty extreme - I still think my friend did a pretty clever commentary with his re-wiring on the lyrics).

Anyhow, with the Yahoo list, you can't ignore a topic like you can here: it just runs on-and-on with sometimes random posts referencing 'nothing'; other times, there will be entire daily digests quoted: it is pretty maddening! But no politics!

Maybe Scotsman and RICK-D15 and any other Bush supporters could start a 'High-Five' thread to celebrate the election results: this was a very close and bitterly fought contest. To deny the opposition the right to commiserate is just plain wrong. And you're more than welcome to completely ignore this thread.

N-
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Postby Carter O'Brien » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:37 pm

how invinsible Kerry seemed during the debates... most likely because there was simply nothing about him that you could criticize simply because he has never done anything.


OK, I can't let that go unchallenged, that's just beyond silly- you can't be both hated as "the most liberal senator" and ALSO be criticized as a do-nothing, that does not follow.

Just for starters, Senator Kerry was the trailblazer in the Senate who actually went after the Iran Contra crooks - his report was censored heavily & was scoffed at by many, but everything he reported has been later verified. People today forget what a complete and total outrage that sad affair was, and Kerry was way ahead of the curve.

For many of us it isn't GW Bush himself, he seems kind of oafish, but is probably a fun guy at a party, nor is the Republican party's traditional platforms that are the problem.

It's the fact that with GW we got the same covert Cold Warriors behind the scenes that scare the piss out of us, because they are stuck in the past.

Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rove - these guys go way, way, way back, and they have all shown a willingness to bend the laws of the USA (not to even get into the international Geneva Convention ones, i.e., assassinations, etc.) when it fits their global agenda.

Now to get back to humor (or humour), I think all can agree this site is pretty damned hysterical!

http://www.marryanamerican.ca/

Ladies and gentlemen,
drop your borders
Now that George W. Bush has been officially elected, single, sexy, American liberals - already a threatened species - will be desperate to escape.
These lonely, afraid (did we mention really hot?) progressives will need a safe haven.
You can help. Open your heart, and your home. Marry an American. Legions of Canadians have already pledged to sacrifice their singlehood to save our southern neighbours from four more years of cowboy conservatism.
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Postby Cuimean » Fri Nov 05, 2004 7:33 pm

Your Pollyanna Moment of the Day

Here's an organization that's doing something positive in the fight against terrorism:

http://www.roomtoread.org/

Today's Pollyanna Moment was brought to you by Sunshine and Unicorns.

(Seriously, though, educating the underpriveleged may take more time and effort than blowing them up, but it's probably more effective at preventing the spread of terrorism. Plus, you'll sleep much better at night.)
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Postby RICK-D15 » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:41 pm

plankity wrote:
RICK-D15 wrote:....I suggest be ban political discussion.

That's 3 more cents.


I think that would be a regretable thing to do -- RICK-D15, are you on the Yahoo list? If not, you might want to join for a trial period -- they do not allow any political discourse on that list. I posted the lyrics to "Undecided" here because they would not allow it there (I think that is pretty extreme - I still think my friend did a pretty clever commentary with his re-wiring on the lyrics)........

........Maybe Scotsman and RICK-D15 and any other Bush supporters could start a 'High-Five' thread to celebrate the election results: this was a very close and bitterly fought contest. To deny the opposition the right to commiserate is just plain wrong. And you're more than welcome to completely ignore this thread.

N-



Well, just a few things there, plankity,

My interest in banning political discussion (although I unfortunately and shamefully engaged in it here) is primarily for the purpose of friendship. No matter what any of us would like to admit, politics affect our view of others. If this board is about music, and if one of its intentions is building an online community of like-minded friendships, (which I hope that's what it is, or will become) then we should avoid it. People get hot-headed about this shit, and you and I know it.

Your quick labeling of me as "a Bush supporter" is indeed evidence that nwilkin's appraisal of the situation is surely the correct one. We are now going around assuming everyone's party status. Do you see where this leads? (someone dig out those arm bands!) Your suggestion that I start a 'High Five" thread goes a bit overboard, doesn't it. Wouldn't you rather have a nice chat about diminished chords?

My suggestion is a serious one. Politics are fine if you want to be in a ballistic environment. Sure, I can just ignore it-- I can stay and talk about other stuff cause' I'm a big enough boy for that. But other people won't ignore it and you're gonna have nasty, bitter threads and possibly turn off a whole bunch of newcomers to the board (who could have been your friends) and all for the sake of what?

now go in peace, grasshopper.
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Postby djangology » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:44 pm

now thats a piece of wisdom that we should all think about. :-)
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Postby Carter O'Brien » Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:23 pm

I understand where you guys are coming from, and I would emphasize that I've never met any musician who puts politics before music , but politics affect us as musicians quite considerably.

Be it policies on playing in the street to government support for the arts, there is a connection.

For example, I found the Eruopean attitude towards music & art so much more desirable than the American one. In America it's all about fighting to survive in the "free market".

In Europe, art & music are worth supporting for their own sake. Consider that the Samois Django Festival is supported by the French people- wouldn't you like to live in a world where these kinds of festivals could survive based on artistic merit, not just exclusively because of commerical appeal?
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Postby djangology » Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:33 pm

Yeah, it is definitely hard to survive as a musician playing "instrumental" music in the USA. Bands definitely have an advantage when they have a singer or some kind of gimmic.

To all of you who do this as a sole source of income... I salute you! Its a tough job!

On the other hand, anyone who puts as much time as I do in a work week (60 hours) purely into their instrument/instruments WILL be successful almost with certaintly in the US. At least in that regard, things are good. If you work hard, you will meet your goals. :-)
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Postby nwilkins » Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:58 pm

Cuimean wrote:Your Pollyanna Moment of the Day

Here's an organization that's doing something positive in the fight against terrorism:

http://www.roomtoread.org/

Today's Pollyanna Moment was brought to you by Sunshine and Unicorns.

(Seriously, though, educating the underpriveleged may take more time and effort than blowing them up, but it's probably more effective at preventing the spread of terrorism. Plus, you'll sleep much better at night.)


Now that's what I'm talking about - the "war" should be waged against lack of education and poverty :)
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Postby plankity » Sat Nov 06, 2004 2:27 pm

RICK-D15 wrote: Your quick labeling of me as "a Bush supporter" is indeed evidence that nwilkin's appraisal of the situation is surely the correct one. We are now going around assuming everyone's party status. Do you see where this leads? (someone dig out those arm bands!) Your suggestion that I start a 'High Five" thread goes a bit overboard, doesn't it. Wouldn't you rather have a nice chat about diminished chords?


Ooops, my bad: RICK D-15: you got me there! I made the over-reaching faux-pas of looking at other threads and drawing conclusions from what someone else (using the handle RICK D-15) said:

RICK-D15 wrote:
Scotsman wrote:Maybe we should also ask what does the "F" stand for in John F. Kerry Just to keep it interesting. [ Flip :? Flop ] :?:


Flappy


Sorry for the mix-up, grasshopper: clearly you're not the Bush supporter I painted you to be - I'll refrain from assuming anything else about you or that other RICK D-15.

I wonder who Zappa would've voted for? Or against?

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