Major soloing question

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Postby Frank » Sat Jul 03, 2004 5:00 pm

Create a backing track of just one major cord vamping and play all the appegios that can be derived from the scale of that cord over it. For example over C major play Cmaj, Dm, Em, Fmaj, G7th, Am, BMaj7b5 etc. See how they sound, use your ears.

This is a good tip, but I think it can be clarified a bit, because not all arpeggios that are contained in a scale sound good over all degrees in the scale. If you play e.g. a G7 arppegio over Cmajor it will not sound very good, because it includes a F, which, being the fourth degree of C major, is an avoidnote, i.e. it will clash with the third (E) of C major. What you can play however, are Amin and Emin. These arpeggios don't contain a F, so they don't clash with the original chord. You rather get nice extensions over the Cmajor: Amin (A, C, E) contains the sixth of Cmajor, Emin (E, G, H) the major7. If the progression goes to the subdominant F, you can play Dmin and get a F6 sound or Amin for the major7 sound.
These relationships within a scale make it possible to break down all diatonic chords into three more or less interchangable types of sound: -Tonic (all chords that don't contain the avoidnote)
-Subdominant (chords that contain the avoidnote)
-Dominant (chords that contain the avoidnote and in which the avoidnote and the guidtone, i.e. the seventh scale degree, form a tritone)
Although this may all sound quite complicated (and maybe I explained it badly) it can really help to break down seemingly complex changes into managable "harmonic regions" and offer lots of possibilities for reharmonisation)
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Postby Swing This! » Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:02 pm

knowing the relative minor scales for the major chords will give you the option of playing some minor runs:

eg. when in key of G major you can play Em; in key of C you can play Am, in key of F play Dm etc...

cheers

Phil

PS.are you coming down to Nathan's house here in Portland for his Gypsy-Swing jam Sat July24th - hope to see you for a jam.
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Postby Djosh » Mon Jul 12, 2004 9:25 pm

I'll be there. I look forward to jamming!
If you swing it... Bring it.
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Postby Lincoln » Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:54 am

This is a very interesting thread going here. It makes me think about how Django must have developed as a player and how other players of his generation probably developed. From what I've read, I gather that in Django's day much more of an emphasis was placed on learning to play melodies and tunes. Solos gradually being scratched out around the melodies with more and more sophistication developing over the years of the players development. It seems that for guitarists that it's really been a product of the last several decades that players learn the tools and then start trying to create music from it (reverse of Djangos day). I read where Pat Metheny never learned to play formal scales and arps, per se, but over the course of playing melody after melody the neck started to all come together in a large composite musical picture, if you will.......Metheny being something of a throwback in terms of orientation (he's also one of the most melodic guys going, too).

Of course, you've put all this time into learning the patterns, now I'd start spending time picking out every stupid melody that you can until your fingers can hear where a melody lies on the fingerboard. Really listening to what you are playing is a key. It's definitely a process that develops over time. Just some thoughts. I hope it makes sense and offers some help.
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Postby Djosh » Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:31 am

Thanks for your thoughts Lincoln. I think your right about Django playing melody for the most part to the point of solo... however, by listening to him play one can tell that he knew more then just melody. He (and other good players) know the changes as well if not better then the notes used in a given melody. Most of these tunes have a vary simple melody line and for the most part do not wander far from one position. Listening to accomplished players start a melody / solo run on the inverted form of the change leads me to believe that they know more then just the melody. Not saying that is what you where trying to preach in your post but I feel that only knowing the melody very will might not give you movement in a solo line you hear in your head.
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Postby Lincoln » Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:21 pm

Djosh, you clearly weren't getting what I was trying to say. I was making a point about HOW players of that generation learned to play musically through changes. I did not say that they ONLY played melody, and did not suggest that you throw away any knowledge of technique and music theory (that you have acquired). I was attempting to offer you a different paradigm for how to begin utlizing the knowledge you have to a more musical end. Of course, there is the issue of technique and knowledge of scales and arpeggios, but that doesn't get you to the level of musical artistry that Django had, by itself. The modern approach (technique first, musicality second) to learning gets you "chops" a whole lot faster. The problem is, then guys have to backtrack to develop the melodic sensibility that older guys worked on from the beginning.

Best wishes to you.
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Postby Djosh » Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:06 am

Ahh.. yes... I think we are saying the same thing. I'm just not too good when it come expressing myself through words. I agree with all you have said.

Cheers
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