Joseph, Joseph

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Joseph, Joseph

Postby justjack » Sun May 30, 2004 5:33 am

This tune's been stuck in my head lately, and I'm trying to figure out the history of it. As I understand it, it's derived from the yiddish(I think) tune Yosel Yosel, but that's about all I know, or think I know. I've got a chart for Yosel that credits Reiner Oberbeck as arranger, but it doesn't list a composer. Traditional, maybe? If anyone's got the full story I'd love to hear it. Thanks.
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Postby Bflat » Mon May 31, 2004 10:02 am

Here's some more information to add to the avalanche of responses you have received so far. :)

On the cd "King of the Gypsies" by the Rigo Winterstein & Lulu Reinhardt Swingtett (which include Babik on bass) the tune goes by the somewhat unlikely title of "Sie will nicht Blumen, auch nicht Schokolade" and is credited to one Barna-bas von Geze!
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Postby justjack » Mon May 31, 2004 6:46 pm

Thanks-looks like I've got some homework to do.
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Postby roineking » Mon May 31, 2004 8:21 pm

I thought that the song was written by Lulu Reinhardt?!
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Postby Bflat » Mon May 31, 2004 8:46 pm

roineking wrote:I thought that the song was written by Lulu Reinhardt?!


I thought so too, but as he's not mentioned as the composer on his own record that''s obviously not the case.

Do you know of any other officially released versions of the tune that are worth checking out?
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Postby Rene » Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:04 am

I don't know the version "Joseph, Joseph" but Yosl Yosl, I do know. I learnt it from the playing Of the Metropolitan Klezmer Band, and they describe it as a tune from the Yiddish Theatre scene. Perhaps, as is often the way with these things, a composition which seems so easily familiar to so many different people and cultures can become "traditional" very quickly. It always struck me as a tune which sketches out a chord progression very simply, as a departure point for improvisation.
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Postby Meshugy » Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:52 pm

Hi All,

I love this song....play it all the time. It definitely has a sorted history, and I've never put in the time to figure out exactly where it came from. It seems that it most likely is a folk tune from Eastern Europe of Jewish or Gypsy origin. I've heard that it is actually used for religious purposes among some Rom.

However, the Jewish tin pan alley composer Sammy Cahn turned it into hit in 1937. He took composers credit, but it had to be a trad. tune. It was recorded by many of the famous Yiddish singers of the time like the Andrews Sisters.

I guess since Sammy took credit, everyone else started to as well. Gypsies seem to anyway. Popi Basily calls it "Song for the Gypsies" and claimed authorship. Someone also mentioned another Gypsy who did the same....

Maybe when I record it I'll claim authorship too!

-Michael

DjangoBooks.com
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Postby TedGottsegen » Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:20 pm

Am Ketenes, featuring the great Emmanuel Kassimo recorded this tune and titled it "Petriarka". When I asked Am Ketenes about it, they told me that it is an unofficial Gypsy anthem, taken from the a jewish folk song. Speaking of which, for those who know him, Kassimo is a great soloist, and they just released a swing CD. I ordered it and am waiting for it to arrive! His performance in Samois 2001 was outstanding.

Best,

Ted
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Postby justjack » Tue Jun 01, 2004 5:59 pm

Thanks, all. Ted-where can the rest of us plebes order this disc?
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Postby TedGottsegen » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:38 pm

justjack wrote:Thanks, all. Ted-where can the rest of us plebes order this disc?


Am Ketenes, the first album with the religious songs can be ordered from the band at http://www.amketenes.com which the new one can be ordered from http://www.fnac.com.
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Postby nwilkins » Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:19 am

Hey Ted,

I'd appreciate a review of the new one when you get it :D
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Postby Rene » Wed Jun 02, 2004 10:43 am

So really it should be credited as Trad./ Arranged by -----. There's a few types claiming ownership of trad. material around. One day we should name names.
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Postby fmason » Wed Jun 02, 2004 8:51 pm

Bflat wrote:Do you know of any other officially released versions of the tune that are worth checking out?


Track 15 of the Virtual Gypsy Jazz CD is a nice version of Joseph! Joseph!, by Trio Swing 99. Their credits list the author as "Steinberg/Casman/Johnny & Jones" (sounds like a redneck law firm).

You can also get the mp3 and several others at:
http://www.trioswing99.nl/audiosection.html
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Postby justjack » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:36 pm

That is a good one-in fact, that's what turned me onto the tune in the first place. You can also find it as 'Petriarka' on the Introducing...Stephane Wrembel disc. It seems like a fairly straight ahead tune to transcribe (I just started to tackle it last night) but I wonder if anyone has seen sheet music for it-it would be nice to have something to check myself against.
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Postby justjack » Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:04 am

And if anyone's interested, here's where I found the Yosel chart:
http://www.stifterhof.de/
They've got a bunch of other tunes there as well...maybe the next crossover tune, somewhere.
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